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Masters of Hard Knocks from the University of Gravity
 
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Reading this article makes me wonder about some of our leaders sometimes.
And don't try pile on me for posting this or the discussion. It is worthy of a discussion no matter what religious beliefs you have.
Atheist soldier claims harassment
JUNCTION CITY, Kansas (AP) -- Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire to serve his country while it fights terrorism.
But the short and soft-spoken specialist is at the center of a legal controversy. He has filed a lawsuit alleging he's been harassed and his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. The suit names Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
"I'm not in it for cash," Hall said. "I want no one else to go what I went through."
Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and -- just as severe to some soldiers -- gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.
"I see a name and rank and United States flag on their shoulder. That's what I believe everyone else should see," he said.
Hall, 23, was raised in a Protestant family in North Carolina and dropped out of school. It wasn't until he joined the Army that he began questioning religion, eventually deciding he couldn't follow any faith.
But he feared how that would look to other soldiers.
"I was ashamed to say that I was an atheist," Hall said.
It eventually came out in Iraq in 2007, when he was in a firefight. Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said.
"I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,"' Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."
The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.
Arctic Commentary- So what if he tried to hold a meeting. It's that what freedom of religion or even lack there of part of what we are fighting about? I would expect the Major to deny it as I'm sure that his superior told him to take a flying leap."
Hall said he had had enough but feared he wouldn't get support from Welborn's superiors. He turned to Mikey Weinstein and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.
Weinstein is the foundation's president and a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate. He had previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on students at the academy, though that case was dismissed. He calls Hall a hero.
"The average American doesn't have enough intestinal fortitude to tell someone to shut up if they are talking in a movie theater," Weinstein said. "You know how hard it is to take on your chain of command? This isn't the shift manager at KFC."
Hall was in Qatar when the lawsuit was filed on September 18 in federal court in Kansas City, Kansas. Other soldiers learned of it and he feared for his own safety. Once, Hall said, a group of soldiers followed him, harassing him, but no one did anything to make it stop.
The Army told him it couldn't protect him and sent him back to Fort Riley. He resumed duties with a military police battalion. He believes his promotion to sergeant has been blocked because of his lawsuit, but he is a team leader responsible for two junior enlisted soldiers.
Arctic Commentary- If the Army said they could not protect him and sent him stateside, that it itself to me proves that there was some truth to this kids story of being harassed. It tells me that his unit failed this kid. It tells me that there are bigger problems in this unit. How do they treat other religions other than the Christian faith?
No one with Fort Riley, the Army or Defense Department would comment about Hall or the lawsuit. Each issued statements saying that discrimination will not be tolerated regardless of race, religion or gender.
"The department respects [and supports by its policy] the rights of others to their own religious beliefs, including the right to hold no beliefs," said Eileen Lainez, a spokeswoman for the Department of Defense.
All three organizations said existing systems help soldiers "address and resolve any perceived unfair treatment."
Lt. Col. David Shurtleff, a Fort Riley chaplain, declined to discuss Hall's case but said chaplains accommodate all faiths as best they can. In most cases, religious issues can be worked out without jeopardizing military operations.
"When you're in Afghanistan and an IED blows up a Humvee, they aren't asking about a wounded soldier's faith," Shurtleff said.
Hall said he enjoys being a team leader but has been told that having faith would make him a better leader.
Arctic Commentary- No one said that this kid doesn't have faith. Only that he didn't believe in God. During my tenure I had a commander that was a Buddhist. He had plenty of faith and multiple gods. Just because he wasn't a Christian didn't make him a bad leader.
"I will take care of my soldiers. Nowhere does it say I have to pray with my soldiers, but I do have to make sure my soldiers' religious needs are met," he said.
"Religion brings comfort to a lot of people," he said. "Personally, I don't want it or need it. But I'm not going to get down on anybody else for it."
Hall leaves the Army in April 2009. He would like to find work with the National Park Service or Environmental Protection Agency, anything outdoors.
"I hope this doesn't define me," Hall said of his lawsuit. "It's just about time somebody said something."
"Si Vis Pacum Para Bellum"
If you want peace prepare for war!
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Green GI
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"I will take care of my soldiers. Nowhere does it say I have to pray with my soldiers, but I do have to make sure my soldiers' religious needs are met," he said.
"Religion brings comfort to a lot of people," he said. "Personally, I don't want it or need it. But I'm not going to get down on anybody else for it."
Hall leaves the Army in April 2009. He would like to find work with the National Park Service or Environmental Protection Agency, anything outdoors.
"I hope this doesn't define me," Hall said of his lawsuit. "It's just about time somebody said something." [/quote]I concur with Arcticabn on this one. While it is not my preference as a Christian, my main concern as a leader (and subsequently of leaders under me) is that the religious support of those Soldiers that want it - have access to it, period. If this Soldier is taking care of those junior to him, and he does not wish to participate, then I respect his decision, and am glad he is taking care of those that do. He is serving with honor. And in a corollary, I would protect any Soldier who made complaint of attempted conversion...to whatever religion.
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Seasoned Vet
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It is surprising to me today that this is becoming an issue. I served with atheist, and there was never an issue with it at all.
I tend to believe this Soldier though, there are too many points made by his commnad that would confirm his allegations of threats.
We have even seen here on this forum and example of an outstanding soldier harrassed for his "non-belief".
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Site Owner/Operator
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| If we cannot allow freedom of religion (even when that means no belief) then are we no better than religious extremist who feel that anyone not like them is inferior or wrong or worth less? This is a sad commentary on intollerance and I frankly expect better. We all have rights and we wouldnt want ours infringed upon.
 
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Regular Joe
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I can't believe that they would be that stupid. I do recall some Lt telling me one time that I had to contribute to the United Foundation or "someone would come see me." I thought that was a bit stupid, so I guess it's hard to underestimate just how dumb they can be sometimes.
<HR> 
The hippo is unpredictable and aggressive with old scars and fresh, deep wounds providing signs of daily fights that are accompanied by much bellowing, neighing and snorting.
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Regular Joe
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| I think the kid is full of BS, and this is another unfounded accusation against a higher NCO/Officer by a Jr enlisted. The kid started this stuff before deployment, says he wasn't comfortable being an atheist? WTF- Then why announce it. Here are a few quotes from him... I'm not in it for cash," Hall said. "I want no one else to go what I went through."
(I'm not in it for cash. is he looking for a book deal ?) Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and -- just as severe to some soldiers -- gay, none of which, he says, is true.
(The "atheist guy"-ok, didn't he just announce that he is an atheist? that would kind of make him "an atheist guy" wouldn't it?, The other jibes are standard issue jibes you would hear in any barracks. , have to wonder if he ever made any crakcs about the "God squad", guess that's ok for him to tease others, but he is too sensitive to be teased, the Army needs to change so his feelings won't be hurt, maybe he should grow a tougher skin)
Do we know anything else about him? Barracks lawyer by anychance? whiner? Guy who knows more then the rest of his CoC? People are willing to throw his Chain of Command under the bus without hearing their side, which will come out in a hearing.
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Masters of Hard Knocks from the University of Gravity
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SN,
I would tend to agree with you up to a point. However, when you throw in the fact that they unit sent him back statesides because they could not protect him, then there is much more to the story.
Units don't send troops home from the box just because of their religious preference. There had to be some real threats to this kid for them to ship him out. Now I know that there have always been kids in units that we wanted to just DX but in order for a unit to ship him back stateside they had to have some pretty strong justifications.
"Si Vis Pacum Para Bellum"
If you want peace prepare for war!
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