Are shoulder patches doomed?
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Are shoulder patches doomed? Expand / Collapse
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Posted 1/21/2008 4:57 PM


Regular Joe

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I've got mixed feelings. I know that SSIs are "traditional" but it's mostly a 20th Century tradition and the history of the Army is far older and richer than just what's gone on since WWI.

I also believe the SSIs take away from the regimental crest and I'm not so sure that's a good thing. Most of the regiments are far older than the divisions or brigades they are assigned to. Elimination of the SSIs might focus a soldier toward the regimental crest for his feelings of tradition and sense of primary group.

One of the better examples of this is the "Oh Nine." Since it's formation in WWII right on up until today it's been assigned and attached to so many different HQs that most former '09ers probably don't feel as nostalgic about a particular SSI as many soldiers do. The "Gingerbread Man" or "Geronimo in the Door" seems to be where it's at for them.

I'm kind of the same way myself. I wore two different SSIs but only one regimental crest. I don't have any deep sense of belonging to the 82nd or SETAF but I do consider myself a member of the 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment.

I'll take the Cross of Lorraine over the AA or the Lion of Saint Mark. It matters little to me that the 325 has been associated with the 82nd since WWI.


Aim small; miss small.
Post #250958
Posted 1/22/2008 3:31 PM


Paratrooper

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We all feel the pride and comradery of wearing the patches we earned. Each of us has a special place in our heart for those Units and the patches they represent. I would hate to see that very special pride and very special place taken away from future Soldiers. The 82nd and 1st Cav patches are part of me, of my life, and who I am. Most of the memory of my service has faded. But when I see those patches or when I display those patches, I am a young Paratrooper or Cav Trooper, again living free and on the edge.


RJ

Post #251012
Posted 1/23/2008 5:10 PM


Regular Joe

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Since we where a color American flag in Garrison. I thought it wouldn't look bad to have color patches in Garrison as well.

Don't hate on me too much for suggesting that.
Post #251100
Posted 1/26/2008 4:39 PM


Stare Master

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longrifle (1/21/2008)
I've got mixed feelings. I know that SSIs are "traditional" but it's mostly a 20th Century tradition and the history of the Army is far older and richer than just what's gone on since WWI.

Traditions are traditions, no matter how old.  WWII was the largest and costliest conflict we have fought outside of our own Civil War and established our Country as a superpower.  It was the war our Army had been preparing more than 150 years.  I think unit patches are important in a way that unit crests aren't

I also believe the SSIs take away from the regimental crest and I'm not so sure that's a good thing. Most of the regiments are far older than the divisions or brigades they are assigned to. Elimination of the SSIs might focus a soldier toward the regimental crest for his feelings of tradition and sense of primary group.

One of the better examples of this is the "Oh Nine." Since it's formation in WWII right on up until today it's been assigned and attached to so many different HQs that most former '09ers probably don't feel as nostalgic about a particular SSI as many soldiers do. The "Gingerbread Man" or "Geronimo in the Door" seems to be where it's at for them.

I'm kind of the same way myself. I wore two different SSIs but only one regimental crest. I don't have any deep sense of belonging to the 82nd or SETAF but I do consider myself a member of the 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment.

I'll take the Cross of Lorraine over the AA or the Lion of Saint Mark. It matters little to me that the 325 has been associated with the 82nd since WWI.

The Little Man in the Door patch is one of the items that tie 509 Troopers together, regardless when we served in the unit, in a way that the unit crest doesn't.  The patch and the crest of the 3rd Zouave Regiment are constants for us, where the crest isn't.  WWII vets didn't have a crest at all and when the 1st and 2nd Battalions were reactivated in 1963 they were originally issued a different DUI.

That doesn't mean that the shoulder patches we wore don't also have meaning to us.  For the Troopers with the 509th in Mainz the 8th ID says that they were part of the only Airborne/Mechanized unit the Army has ever fielded.  For those of us who were in Vicenza the SETAF patch shows that we were part of the only forward deployed Airborne battalion at that time.  The JRTC patch identifies modern day 509'ers as the OPFOR.  The patch of each unit the 509th was part of has meaning in itself.

Regimental patches are more of an Airborne/Infantry tradition.  It is not a tradition shared by leg units or by Airborne units other than Infantry units.  I suspect Rigger and others in Division support would probably disagree with the idea that the AA patch is not that important.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Post #251259
Posted 1/26/2008 11:20 PM


Hard Charger

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IMO the Army needs to keep'm if for no other reason than to maintain an established lineage of strength that correlates to years of use, standing the test of time, marking a units territory in authenticity, uniqueness, and esprit de corp, kind of like hiking your LEG to take a piss!

Take that away and I think there is something very important lost in the name of change.

But what would a freak'n squid know about SSIs and Unit Crests!

Here is what the Navy uses on their uniforms as a shoulder unit identification tab: (these are mine by the way)



"Let's Go Downtown" - Flight of the Intruder
 



http://www.327infantry.org/second/c_co 

Same Mud Same Blood - NBC documentary filmed 1967 RVN, chronicle Frank McGee
IMO
FSGT Nelson P. Henry
101st 2nd/327th -NO SLACK
KIA October 28, 1967 in QuangTin Province RVN
militarysignatures.com
Post #251276
Posted 1/29/2008 12:57 PM


Regular Joe

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I, myself, always thought that the 17th Airborne's SSI was pretty cool.



"I Know in my heart that Man is good, That right will always eventually triumph, and that there is purpose to each and every life."

-Ronald Reagan, November 4, 1991 at the Dedication of the Reagan Library

 

Post #251440
Posted 1/29/2008 1:05 PM


Hard Charger

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11b1p (1/23/2008)
Since we where a color American flag in Garrison. I thought it wouldn't look bad to have color patches in Garrison as well.

Don't hate on me too much for suggesting that.

Actually it's hard to argue with that logic.  I presume that most units going into combat would "sterilize" their uniforms before going out right?  So if the patch is garrison-only, why not a full color patch?  Certainly it would be a benefit to the supply system as you could get rid of all the subdued patches altogether. 

Check out the movie "Gardens of Stone" to see stateside GIs wearing the old green "pickle suit" fatigues with full color nametapes, rank insignias, patches and skill badges.

Edit:  What do you think?

 


 
Martin  
 
 
 
"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission" - Zapp Branigan, Futurama
Post #251441
Posted 1/29/2008 2:39 PM