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P.Net O.G.
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OK, here this goes. There is something that has been playing in my mind for the last several months here in lovely Iraq, and for some reason, reading the whole Golden Compass thread just set it off again in my mind, and I felt that I had to get this off of my chest.
For some background, Tuffie226, me, is what by definition is an atheist. By definition, an athiest is someone with a doctrine or belief that there is no God. That fits who I am and to a certain extent probably what I have been for the most of my life. Outside of my first marriage to the stereo-typical Catholic woman, there has never been any church or God in my life. Hell there wasn’t much of anything in my life growing up except for parents who were never there, and when the person supposing to be my mother was, all that involved was a lot of beatings and mysterious hospital visits. Any way, this is not the point of this rant, just a little background for the story.
When my squad is prepping to go out on mission, normally our battalion chaplain in in the AO, and just normally walks around until after the OPORD’s are finished and she will come up and ask to do her thing and say a prayer with the troops. I have never had a problem with the chaplain saying a prayer with my Soldiers who desire to do so after I complete my OPORD for a mission. I even manage to smile when she interrupts my briefings to ask about saying the prayer afterwards. I politely turn over my Soldiers to the Chaplain and politely excuse myself for a few moments somewhere else, normally to conduct last minute business before we leave.
The first few missions that we ran in country before I took charge in any shape or form, the Chaplian would just glare when I excused myself and went to my vehicle. Then things went fine for the last 8 months or so, she did her thing, and I mine. However, lately, especially the last mission we did, she has taken an assertive, and to me, an inappropriate disliking to my beliefs. I do not share my beliefs with my squad of young Soldiers, as most of them are Christian or Mormon, and I respect their beliefs, and those who know mine do the same. I respect people for their beliefs, and believe mine should be respected as well, whether they agree with the masses or not. However, this Chaplain has decided that not only should I have developed a belief in God at this point, but that my excluding myself from her pre-mission prayer in a sign of disrespect, and is “poisoning the young minds of the Soldiers and NCO’s who look up to me for guidance.” She has expressed wonder at “how I could not have developed a belief after what I have seen so far during this deployment”, and has expressed a need to discuss my problems with my chain of command. What is there to discuss?
Now I do not want this to come across as a plea for support or my need for a backing from the masses, as I realize the majority of this board is of a solid Christian background. I feel that I have handled this matter, both with her and I have expressed both my beliefs to my leaders, and my feeling that she has overstepped her boundary. I would just like to have a rational discussion amongst my peers, and a lot of people on here whom I would consider friends. Please discuss
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Cherry
Group: Registered User
Last Login: 2/15/2008 11:11 PM
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Funny that this should come up . I once worked for a guy that seemed for all intents and purposes an "average Joe". Then one day he got the bright idea to be a minister . As time went on he developed a bit of a "holier than thou" (no pun intended) with many people . Some people seem to think that since they represent God that by offending (real or perceived) them you are in fact dissing God and they take offense . This is by no way indicative of all or even many but there are a few that take this posture .You need to have a talk with her and tell her in no uncertain terms that if she continues you will have no recourse other than to file charges for harrassment . If you want to take a softer approach you might confer with your CO and explain your views that if they want to see things relative to a supreme being you have no problem . You just don't want to be included . BTW Mormons ARE Christians . Good luck .
TOM
NRA
LDMA
AMERICAN LEGION
U.S. PARATROOPER
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Masters of Hard Knocks from the University of Gravity
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Tuffie, First off hang tough. It's not a matter of what we believe but what you believe. If I were in your position I would have a very short one sided discussion with your chaplain. Tell her that you respect her beliefs and the beliefs of your troops. That's one of the reasons that you are wearing the uniform. She needs to accept that not everyone is the same as her and that she needs to focus on doing her job for those that wish her support PERIOD. You can tell her that in no uncertain terms is she going to convince you to change the way you belief so let it go. Your not a convert.
As far as disrespecting your troops. Tell here that it would be more disrespectful for you to attend when your troops know who you are. It would just be hypocritical and they would know it. Tell her you share your moments with the troops and as one that stays behind when you leave the perimeter, the bond with the troops is foreign to her. She won't get that one but, you do.
Be straight with your CoC. Your a professional soldier and what ever your belief system is does not interfere with your duties of leading the troops. If they press it ask them that if you were Jewish, or Buddhist, or of some other non-Christian faith would you be having the same conversation. I think not, because you would not be expected to attend a Christian prayer.
I don't think anyone here is going to try and convince you to convert either. I do believe that no matter what faith a member here is they are going to support you and try and give you sound advice. See we all get it. We wore the uniform for our freedoms and this sure is one of them.
Hang in the. Stay Hard and Stay Alive.
Arctic
"Si Vis Pacum Para Bellum"
If you want peace prepare for war!
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Combat Veteran
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| Tuffie, Artic is spot on! If she wants to discuss her issue w/ your chain of command then by all means go for it. It sounds like the Chaplain is feeling that you are a project for her "convert him" is her mission statement and as you can guess it has failed. Just remember this, she thinks she is doing her job and just like you will do what is required to be succesful. Maintain the moral highground and lay it out when you go to the COC. My thoughts are that the COC will just pat her on the head and send her on her way. Good Luck and thank you for what you are doing! Muddy!!!
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Regular Joe
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| She is certainly not going to win you over by offending you. I recall being with an injured soldier who told me that he was an atheist and since he had a head and neck injury they couldn't give him any pain killers so I stayed with him and we talked about this and that (my poor attempt to distract him from his pain) until the chopper got there to airlift him out. We never mentioned God and I like to think that I left him with a better view of Christians then he started with while helping him through a rough time. He did say thanks when they took him away and I never saw him again but I thought that I did my job which was to help him through that time, not to convert him. The Bible says that one plants, another waters, and God gives the increase. God doesn't need me to convince you or anyone else of His existence. All He asks is that I do the task in front of me. Maybe she thinks God needs a little help in your case (LOL). Anyway, whether you beleieve or not I know that I wish you well and to be safe.
<HR> 
The hippo is unpredictable and aggressive with old scars and fresh, deep wounds providing signs of daily fights that are accompanied by much bellowing, neighing and snorting.
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Site Owner/Operator
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| Tuffie, Hard to put it any better than what you've already read above and I completely agree. I wouldnt appreciate someone elses beliefs forced or 'guilted' on me either. Seems like if the Chaplain wanted a project, she could find any number of them in Iraq if she's on a mission to convert. Hang tough, the middle of the Iraq where you need to concentrate on the job might be a bad time to pile on the stress of taking on what you believe. Thanks for posting this, it is tough enough to discuss this stuff with the people around you but you chose to do it out in the open which says a lot (to me at least).
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Paratrooper
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Stay focused on your mission, don't let her distract you. Ignore her or report her. I'm sure the chain of command won't be too happy with her interfering.
RJ 
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 Posted 12/16/2007 10:25 PM |
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