This will generate some controversy: Abolish the Air Force?
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This will generate some controversy: Abolish the Air Force?... Expand / Collapse
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Posted 11/2/2007 9:27 AM


Hard Charger

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The American Prospect is a leftwing site, but this article is very interesting, makes a lot of good points: 

Abolish the Air Force

I'll reserve my comments until after folks have had a chance to read the article....


 
Martin  
 
 
 
"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission" - Zapp Branigan, Futurama
Post #247208
Posted 11/2/2007 9:51 AM


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Airlift and Tactical Air Support SHOULD be a part of the Army. Coming from me that's shocking isn't it??

In fact, prior to Gulf War I, the AF was going to boneyard all the A-10s. The Army said, okay, we want everyone of them, and were going to cross train WOs into the AC.

For those of you in the JAAT world, it is always a pissing contest on who is "paying" for the airlift. The Army should retain a fleet of 24 C-17s at Pope for it's own needs. Those not being used for Army needs can be "rented" back to the AF for cargo use. Using Army crews of course!!!

Putting those assests back into the Army would solve those problems. Sure the AF needs to retain some Tactical Airlift for it's own needs, but the majority should be turned into Army assests.

That's my .02 worth. Your mileage may vary!

Big Al!

LOAD CLEAR! LOAD CLEAR!

To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.

Elbert Hubbard

 

Post #247209
Posted 11/2/2007 10:45 AM


Hard Charger

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MM:  I agree about Tactical air support.  Not so sure about airlift, though. 

Sometimes I think the Soviets had it right.  The Soviets actually had 5 separate air arms, under independent control:

1.  Frontal Aviation (what we would call Tactical Air Command) was Air Force but under Army control (this included ground attack, strike and tactical fighter aircraft)

2.  Strategic Air Defense Command:  This included both ground-based air-defense (missiles and guns) and interceptors.  To me this makes a lot more sense than having Air Defense Command controlling the aircraft and the Army (in theory) in charge of all ground-based missiles.  Ground-based tactical air defense is still (properly) under Army control. 

3.  Air Transport command:  Their equivilent of MAC or AMC was under Air Force control.

4.  Naval Aviation:  This included long-range, ground based ASW and Antishipping aircraft and was under Navy control

5.  Strategic Rocket Forces:  Actually a separate service in the Soviet system.  Controlled all Strategic ground-based missiles (ICBMs.)  Tactical and Operational-level missiles were still under the command of the Army. 

I think this system actually makes more sense, although it decentralizes the Air Force and subordinates them to the other services (except in areas that are their specialty such as Air Transport.) 

I seem to recall they also had a Stratetic Bomber command, although I can't remember if that was under the direct control of the Air Force or not - I presume it was. 

The Soviets had 5 services, compared to 4 in the US.  The 5 Soviet military services were:  The Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Air Defense Forces (completely separate from the Air Force) and the Strategic Rocket Forces (again, a completely separate service.)  The KGB and MVD were not considered military forces, although they looked and formed like military units in many ways. 


 
Martin  
 
 
 
"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission" - Zapp Branigan, Futurama
Post #247215
Posted 11/2/2007 10:48 AM


Hard Charger

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BTW, the one area where I do not agree with the article is that ICBMs should be under Naval control. 

If you think about it, ICBMs are nothing more than a very sophisticated form of artillery, and should obviously be under Army control. 


 
Martin  
 
 
 
"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission" - Zapp Branigan, Futurama
Post #247216
Posted 11/2/2007 10:54 AM


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Let them keep the Space and Missles, and let them keep the bombers. But Tac Airlift has always been for the end users...the Army and Marines. They can keep Strat Airlift, the C-5s and those C-17 non-airdropping pussies that are at Dover, McGuire, Travis, Jackson, Hickam, Elmendorf,(although some support the 4th Brigade, 25th Infantry (Airborne) and March Air Bases. McChord can can support Fort Lewis and the West Coast, and Chucktown can support the East coast and maybe move to Pope!  

So to recap, Army should get Tac air support and airlift and AF can run the Stargate!

Big Al!

LOAD CLEAR! LOAD CLEAR!

To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.

Elbert Hubbard

 

Post #247217
Posted 11/6/2007 8:54 PM


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Wow, a C-17 guy talking about tactical airlift!!! Sorry, but if you don't have to CLIMB to drop altitude, it ain't tactical. There's no level like LOW LEVEL!

There are two rules to success in life...

Rule #1: Don't tell people everything you know.

Post #247384
Posted 11/7/2007 8:41 AM


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Shut up Cherry! Frickin' wrench turners!!!!

I've climbed to drop altitude and I've spiraled in from 20,000 feet to drop altitude. I've landed in the dirt and on taxiways. I seem to recall the first Tactical Airlifter over Afghanistan was the C-17, the first on the ground in A'Stan, and the first on the ground at Saddam International.

All the while the Four Fan Trash Can boys sat on the bench keeping our water handy until we handed the light work over to them.

Ask yourself this, why don't they break down the tactical airlift numbers in theatre by AC type?? I'll tell ya why, because the Herky boys are embarrssed to admit that we can do anything a Herc can do, just better and in more comfort.

You guys still shitting in buckets in the back???

Big Al!

LOAD CLEAR! LOAD CLEAR!

To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.

Elbert Hubbard

 

Post #247397
Posted 11/7/2007 9:08 AM