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Posted 12/27/2006 5:28 AM


Hard Charger

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Here is a topic that begs the question "Were we created or did we evolve?"

Scientists for the most part, have taken a position that man and life evolved thru natural selection. Though some scientists claim life was created with some type of intelligent design behind it.

Typical arguments to this are that intelligent design lacks consistency and can not be "tested", therefore, fails to adhere to scientific standards. It has even been categorized and ruled by the supreme court as a version of creationism and can not be taught in our public schools.

Proponents for intelligent design say there is astounding "observation" that when certain mechanisms of life are analyzed, for example: the flagella motor that drives bacteria could have never evolved into the sophisticated mechanism that it is, if it weren't for intelligent design of a creator. Along with the fact that each of our own blood cells contain the DNA necessary to unlock every feature of every man, woman and child on this planet.

Controversial to say the least!

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Same Mud Same Blood - NBC documentary filmed 1967 RVN, chronicle Frank McGee
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Post #223424
Posted 12/27/2006 5:37 AM


OIF Veteran

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IMO...evolution was built into the creation.  In other words the creation evolves.  To support that notion you obvioulsy would have to believe that all life was originally created.


Post #223425
Posted 12/27/2006 8:02 AM


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Well, this is one discussion I like.. I think that evolution doesnt preclude creationism.

As I've said before, the Bible was created at a time when man had a limited ability to understand (by todays standard) the world, time etc... the Bible therefore would give us the story of life in a way that could be understood. I think its an interpretation of the beginning of life.

I believe that God created life.. I just dont think he blinked man and beast into the picture like david copperfield.

If you believe God has a grand design, then why couldnt God create the universe and dictate the terms of a gradual creation of life... set the stage for man so to speak... if we just blinked in, wouldnt that just make our head spin?

I think God just started out and man evolved, but just because you believe in evolution, doesnt rule out that God doesnt have a hand in how that all takes place. If God in his infinite wisdom gave us the ability of free will, why wouldnt or couldnt he have placed early life in motion and let a certain freedom dictate the world that man would later inhabit?

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Post #223437
Posted 12/27/2006 1:04 PM


Hard Charger

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I believe it is important for science and religion to "come to terms" with each other because they could learn alot without giving up certain foundations already established.

I believe God is creating all the time, and has been, from the beginning.  How much of that is direct I can't say.  How much is indirect thru putting the wheels in motion I can't say either.  But I believe it is all relative to time. In other words, how can we even fathom what God's reference for time is when we are in our infancy, in terms of human history, on how we use time to reference everything. God's "blink" in reference to his time table could be several years for mankind.

I've always thought of "I Dream of Jeannie" or "Bewitched" in terms of blink magic instead of the smoke and mirrors by Copperfield!

I do know one thing, you just can not explain everthing with a formula as some scientists would like to think. Faith in a creator and science are going to have to merge somewhere down the road for mankind to come to grips with identity.

"Let's Go Downtown" - Flight of the Intruder
 



http://www.327infantry.org/second/c_co 

Same Mud Same Blood - NBC documentary filmed 1967 RVN, chronicle Frank McGee
IMO
FSGT Nelson P. Henry
101st 2nd/327th -NO SLACK
KIA October 28, 1967 in QuangTin Province RVN
militarysignatures.com
Post #223470
Posted 12/27/2006 6:53 PM


Regular Joe

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A really smart guy once gave me a new perspective on the book of Genesis.

If you look at it, the bulk of it is the explanation of how the nomadic people of Palestine became the nation of Israel. It's assumed that Moses or a group proposing to be Moses is the author/authors by many of the biblical scholars.

So you have to ask yourself, was this guy or group writing the first couple of chapters of Genesis for the purpose of proposing creationism? Not likely. It was probably to set a picture for the story with Abraham, Isaac, Israel... Kind of like the beginning of any story (the scrolling yellow text at the beginning of Star Wars, for instance) where they don't devote alot to the details because they don't really contribute to the narrative. But most of conservative Christianity is hung up on the details and won't let go of those quickly moving lines of text. In fact, schools of study were drawn up to examine these details and make sense out of what was likely intended as a brief intro.

Just an opinion.





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Post #223522
Posted 12/27/2006 8:53 PM


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Like Mark I believe that Genesis was written to be understood by man thousands of years ago.

According to the Bible the Earth is only approximately 6,000 years old but paleontologists claim that it is 4.6 billion years old.

The Bible also claims that man has been here since the beginning 6,000 years ago.

Acheologists/Paleontologists/Geologists/Anthropologists believe that man [Homo Sapiens] has only been here 100,000 or so years.  According to the scientists cavemen never saw a single live dinosaur since they were all extinct millions of years before Homo Erectus or Homo Sapiens appeared on the Earth history scene.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

There is a big discrepancy between 6,000 and 100,000 years.  What about the fact that according to science dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago?  Again that is a long way off from 6,000 years but we do know that the Egyptian Pyramids are around 4,000 years old.  Did it take Homo Sapiens 96,000 years or so to gain the architectural and engineering knowledge to build something like the Great Pyramids?  Probably so.

We know it took man more than 100,000 years to have the aerospace engineering knowledge to put a Homo Sapiens on the Moon [1969].

I believe in God but I also believe that Earth's history goes back way more than 6,000 years.

As for evolution keep in mind that genetics have a lot to do with it.  Prior to the 15th century human populations [races] were still big time isolated.  The discovery of the New Word [1492] marked the begining of a major merging of gene pools that were once geographically isolated.  That is evolution and it is still going on five centuries later.  Human populations today are much different today than when Cristobal Colon crossed the Atlantic.  The merging of gene pools promotes biological fitness.  Biological fitness has been proven genetically but racists have resisted the fact for centuries.  Hitler's "superior race" [master race] got a big time wake up call from this gentleman [American] in 1936 [and from racially diverse Allied forces that faced his master race from 1939 to 1945]:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_theory

I also believe that pre-historic life was part of Gods plan [part of His early creation].  Yet many religious [narrow] minded people choose to not even acknowledge the fact the evidence is clearly there and that the timeline goes well beyond 6,000 years.

I personally believe that Genesis took place not 6,000 years ago but more like many millions of years ago.  The first book of Moses [Genesis] did not have the benefit of all the fossil evidence we have today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossils

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection

Keep in mind that Genesis 1: 1 - 2...clearly states that "in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.  And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

I once presented the above views to my Paleontology professor in college and almost got kicked out of the classroom [I did it in the presence of the entire class].  I still ended up getting an A in his course.  Needless to say he was a diehard Darwinist.


Post #223534
Posted 12/28/2006 12:12 AM


Trooper

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Some of my friends are creationists while I have other friends who are evolutionists.

I support my friends.

Discuss friends.

 

The hippo is unpredictable and aggressive with old scars and fresh, deep wounds providing signs of daily fights that are accompanied by much bellowing, neighing and snorting.

Post #223539