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Site Owner/Operator
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| Forgive my infantry ignorance.. but I thought the only way you could HAVE a CIB was to first hold the EIB and then be in combat with an infantry unit. So if you had not made it through EIB there was no award to add the wreath and star to it. Seems to me if this isnt the case then it should be... would be like someone holding a senior parachutist badge without ever earning basic... kind of nuts.
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Anti-social
 
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Rigger82 (4/12/2006)
Forgive my infantry ignorance.. but I thought the only way you could HAVE a CIB was to first hold the EIB and then be in combat with an infantry unit. So if you had not made it through EIB there was no award to add the wreath and star to it. Seems to me if this isnt the case then it should be... would be like someone holding a senior parachutist badge without ever earning basic... kind of nuts. No they are completely seperate awards. Alot of guys during VN for instance deployed straight into combat from AIT so they would of never had a chance to test for EIB
1/508th Abn Inf, 82nd Abn Div 81-83 1/4th Inf (Mech), 3rd Inf Div (USAEUR) 83-84 SGT\EIB\Recondo "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx
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JR's Chick
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If you have both the EIB and the CIB, you are supposed to wear the CIB only. I checked into it when I saw one of my NCO's wearing the EIB, instead of his CIB. It's been a couple years since I checked, but I assume it also applies to wings, the EFMB, etc.
Blacksmith Six
"I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman!" -Homer Simpson
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Stare Master
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Rigger82 (4/12/2006)
Forgive my infantry ignorance.. but I thought the only way you could HAVE a CIB was to first hold the EIB and then be in combat with an infantry unit. So if you had not made it through EIB there was no award to add the wreath and star to it. Seems to me if this isnt the case then it should be... would be like someone holding a senior parachutist badge without ever earning basic... kind of nuts. EIB testing is done at the unit. So those privates coming out of infantry AIT and being deployed immediately earn their CIB without ever having the chance for an EIB. Overall I doubt if very many infantrymen in WWII participated in EIB testing before going into combat and earning their CIB. As far as your jump wing analogy, you don't have to have senior or master wings to have a mustard stain on your wings. The only requirement for the combat jump star is that you participate in a combat jump.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS
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509Trooper (4/12/2006)
Rigger82 (4/12/2006)
Forgive my infantry ignorance.. but I thought the only way you could HAVE a CIB was to first hold the EIB and then be in combat with an infantry unit. So if you had not made it through EIB there was no award to add the wreath and star to it. Seems to me if this isnt the case then it should be... would be like someone holding a senior parachutist badge without ever earning basic... kind of nuts. But you don't have to have senior or master wings to have a mustard stain on your wings. The only requirement for the combat jump star is that you participate in a combat jump. Not only that, but one way to qualify for jump wings if you've never been to Airborne School is to make a combat-jump (Gen's Ridgway and Taylor got their wings that way)
1/508th Abn Inf, 82nd Abn Div 81-83 1/4th Inf (Mech), 3rd Inf Div (USAEUR) 83-84 SGT\EIB\Recondo "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx
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Trooper
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| I work on an Army Installation but it isn't Combat Arms, but before I get into that part of the comment let me say that I have always held those that wear the EIB in high regards. I was in the Army during the Vietnam Era and there were a lot of CIBs around. I have had people who have earned both the EIB and CIB and prefer to wear the EIB over the CIB. Their comment on this is that the EIB implies skills and the CIB implied they were in a Combat area, and their survival may not have been a show of skills as much as luck. Like some have mentioned I agree that there should be some way to show both. Okay now back to my opening and a little of my history. After Basic I went to AIT and didn't see or hear anything Infantry related during my course. The closest I came to a weapon was the part of my course that was Small Arms Armorer. After AIT I went to Basic Airborne Course and after completing that was assigned to the 509th ABN INF which at the time was in Germany. What I learned about the Infantry I learned by the personnel/training while in that unit. Now we should have learned from events of that day that there isn't a true rear area, especially in the current theaters. After initial operations we found that, the transportation unit, whatever support units, the "rear", guess they still use the term "REMF", need to know how to handle weapons, navigate, etc. I saw at work increase in ranges not only the permanent party personnel on base but the AIT Soldiers were coming to the range. Convoy OPs including live fire, land navigation. However a recent document that I received implied that this is going to change for the AIT Soldiers. I don't know what the complete plan is for continued training in these areas for the AIT Soldiers as the part of this, that I got, didn't go that far. I can only hope that the Soldiers that aren't in a Combat Arms unit will still continue to receive this "Infantry" training. I'm not sure what the direction is going to be but I would like to see every Soldier complete some sort of Basic Infantry Skills Course prior to their AIT. If we need a badge for this, okay. Those that are pursuing the Infantry MOSes will earn the EIB or something a long those lines. Now when a Soldier is deployed to a declared combat zone, in other words in country, then they can add the wreath to whichever badge they have earned thus far. I know , I know "Badges, Badges, we don't have any stinking badges. We don't need any stinking badges!" Example, I got a call this afternoon @ 16:00 from NCO who wanted to know if we had anyone scheduled for our Land Nav course tomorrow, and we did. The NCO said they had two Soldiers that were leaving Sunday for PLDC and wanted to know if they could come to the course. I said it was on the using unit, if they agreeded to the two Soldiers no problem on our end and gave the NCO the POC for the using unit. Less than a half and hour an E-5 showed up at the office looking for maps, etc. According to him he said these two Soldiers didn't know how to read a map to get coordinates, etc. Now I'm thinking if these people aren't cracker-jack people then I doubt that what you are going to attempt to teach them by 11:30 tomorrow is going to really help navigate the course nor is that bus/plane ticket to where ever their PLDC is, is going to be money well spent. In another forum there is an article about "being to soft" and part of the above can go along to that comment. I have a quote posted at my desk, unfortunately I don't have it memorized, tomorrow I can post from my work station but I'm sure some of you are familiar with it. Basically it says as a trainer, burn the mid-night oil to be able to train your Soldier. Don't let your hands be red with that Soldier's blood because you failed to do what was necessary to train him properly.
"American Parachutists...devils in baggy pants...are less than 100 meters from my outpost line. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere..."
(An entry in a German officer's diary found after the Battle of Anzio)
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Trooper
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| See I told you I didn't have it memorized, here is the quote. A dead soldier who has given his life because of the failure of his leader is a dreadful sight before God. Like all dead soldiers, he was tired, possibly frightened to his soul, and there he is on top of all that never again to see his homeland. Don’t be the one who failed to instruct him properly, who failed to lead him well. Burn the midnight oil, so that you may not in later years look upon your hands and find his blood still red upon them.
- James Warner Bellah
"American Parachutists...devils in baggy pants...are less than 100 meters from my outpost line. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere..."
(An entry in a German officer's diary found after the Battle of Anzio)
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