We do not possess the capability to put all available "tip of the spear" volunteers through Ranger school before they deploy so every slot given to CSS MOS personnel at the moment is a wasted opportunity to provide the training to the men who need it most.

If females are ever allowed to enter 11, 18, and assorted other currently closed MOS fields then they should also be allowed to attend Ranger school. Oh... they also should be made eligable for the draft in conjunction to the above.

 

"The degenerative and loony should never be denigrated but, rather, thanked. In their absence, the rest of you would be obliged to fill congressional seats... positions naturally unsavory to the sane and honorable."

Thorax

Can Opened...Worms EVERYWHERE!!!  

Blacksmith Six

OIF 09-10, 1st Cavalry Division

Not really... read the last paragraph of my last post.

Oh... and how could they not modify at least the last phase of the school if females are allowed to attend? Army certainly doesn't need to lose soldiers to toxic shock syndrome and just 24 hours in that swamp with will definately cause it.

 

"The degenerative and loony should never be denigrated but, rather, thanked. In their absence, the rest of you would be obliged to fill congressional seats... positions naturally unsavory to the sane and honorable."

Thorax

OIF 09-10, 1st Cavalry Division

Despite the exemplary performance of properly trained and motivated females (notice I'mm being very selective with my terms here...) in Iraq and other places. I do not believe our nation is ready for the step of requiring women to register for selective service... any politician who makes such a push would be putting a nail into the coffin of their career.

 

"The degenerative and loony should never be denigrated but, rather, thanked. In their absence, the rest of you would be obliged to fill congressional seats... positions naturally unsavory to the sane and honorable."

Thorax

1.  During my time at Bragg and while working with other Army units, most of the hooahs I have ever heard or seen bitching about not getting into Ranger school (with the notable exception of the National Guard bubbas - Their problem is due to funding priorities/lack of same within NGB) haven't ever even put in the proper paperwork to attend.  If highly motivated Joes in Combat Arms units are putting in packets to attend, but not getting there - That's wrong.  But you have to prove to me that that's TRULY happening, and not just an emotional  and unreasoning response to an X-Ray tech attending and graduating Ranger school (Thanks, khyros!).  BOTTOM LINE - I PERSONALLY think saying that Infantry and other Combat Arms Soldiers can't get a Ranger school slot is pretty close to being an Urban Myth.

2.  If the Army does an OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED Risk Assessment and determines that Ranger school is not safe for women to attend - Then they should not attend, period - full stop.  We definitely can't be needlessly risking the lives and health of Soldiers just so they can attend a school, no matter now good it is.  HOWEVER - If an OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED Risk Assessment determines that Ranger school IS safe for women to attend - Let them go, and see who of them makes it.  My guess is - Some will, but most won't.

3.  If Ranger school is going to remain open to ALL CS and CSS Soldiers, the Ranger Training Brigade should be plussed up enough to run more classes per year.  If the cadre is not strenghtened, but the classes are increased, it COULD HAVE a cumulative detrimental effect on the training, due to increasing the fatigue factor for the instructors.

4.  Running an "Army-Wide Order of Merit List" for Ranger school would be the only way to truly ensure that the most deserving Soldiers who are currently available and have submitted packets are given first priority.  Unfortunately, that option would TRULY be more trouble than it's worth.

5.  Most of the guys I've seen in the Army who are prejudicial against female Soldiers haven't worked with them.  Too bad, because there's truly some excellent female SOLDIERS out there in the co-ed parts of the Army.  Just like there's some truly worthless male Soldiers out there in the male-only units.

Base Point For JR:

I want well-trained and MOTIVATED Soldiers on my side, slinging lead downrange at the Islamo-Fascist, Terrorist bastards who are trying to kill us, our families and even our freakin' pets.  I don't particularly care what kind of gonads they have, as long as they have a pair and are willing to kill the enemy before they come to our shores AGAIN.

Last Thought - I totally dig the discourse on here and truly respect each and every one of you.  I'm also glad we can agree to disagree on items and it doesn't really make a shite of difference in how well we get along on here.

(BTW - In case you didn't know, Airborne - GONADS is a gender-neutral term)

Do you listen to yourself when you talk; or do you just fade in and out?

JR, this is a first person account by another member here.  Based on the accounts given by soldiers, some here, I don't see how you can call it a myth unless it's just that you don't want to believe it.

I think there are some women in the Army who may very well be able to complete Ranger School.  The problem I have with women attending Ranger School, other than the CS/CSS debate, is that too often the presence creates pressure to graduate more than those that can meet the standards.  Consequently the standards get lowered.  I mean no disrespect to female soldiers, but I have seen it happen on at least one occasion.

I have no problem working with women.  There was a female blackhat at Tower Branch when I returned there in 1980.  I have as much respect for her as I have for the male blackhats.  And in the civilian world I have worked for a number of women with no problem.  I also am not tabbed nor did I ever apply because I knew I was not ready.  While I do think all soldiers, regardless of gender or branch need more intense training prior to deployment I do not think Ranger School is the proper way to do that.

First rounds on me when we are able to get together, bro.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Think of it.  What happens if you are a high speed tabbed out young E-5 fire team leader in the 75th and you get the hots for your female M249 gunner?  You are supposed to be getting ready for a mass tactical night jump airfield seizure op but your hormones have taken over.  Worst of all you are keeping an eye on your squad leader who seems to have the hots for her too.

BTW I was not one of those.

Just my .02