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Green GI
 
Group: Registered User
Last Login: 1/23/2008 6:33 PM
Posts: 38,
Visits: 68
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As the username suggests, I am a Rakkasan and, as such, proud of my unit's history, lineage and honors. However, I am also a dirty Leg with two-and-a-half years in a non-jumping Airborne division (101st, of course) and a bone to pick with some of the five-jump Paratroopers in the Army. Please don't take offense to what I am about to say as I mean no disrespect. Also, as a well-trained hypocrite, I plan to go to jump school myself in the near future, while serving in a non-jump status. Which leads to my complaint.
I reported to The Old Guard last August. Since then I have come to regard basic Parachutist Wings and an EIB as the "Old Guard stack". Much like my CIB and Air Assault Wings are the "Fort Campbell stack". I noticed a problem with respect from the get-go. Also, it seemed as though most of the Soldiers here have to draw on jump school and basic training for stories. As such, you might not be surprised by the fact that even junior NCO's sometimes trade basic training stories with newly arrived Soldiers. The thing that got me as a senior Specialist, though, was the fact that junior privates (here, most privates are Specialists at eighteen to twenty months and Sergeants at 26-32 months) felt they could call others such as myself legs due to a lack of jump wings. Now, I don't take it as seriously as my whining might seem but nor do I like the thought of some guy that joined the Army after I had done a tour in Iraq calling me names. In short, dem's fightin' words.
My way of dealing with the situation was unique. Bring back the crazy Rakkasan pride diluted with some unique in-jokes from Iraq such as "Ai-ee-yah". http://www.carson.army.mil/UNITS/3RD%20ACR/main%20pages/AI-EE-YAH.htm
In the process I educated the Soldiers as to the history of Airborne Operations and pointed out the fact that, jump wings or no, I will be more Airborne than they will ever be unless, of course, they go to an Airborne unit. After all, Gliderborne, Air Mobile and Air Assault and Parachutist all fall under the concept of Airborne Operations, though Parachutists have historically been considered the elite of the group. Another thing I pointed out is the fact that in years long past, if you saw jump wings on a Soldier you knew he was a hardcore bastard. Granted, I am not quite old enough to know first hand, but I read histories of pre-Vietnam Airborne units (especially, you guess it, 187th ARCT) and training and study pictures. I don't notice too many Vietnam-era Soldiers in leg units wearing wings nor have I seen many non-Rakkasans wearing wings in-country during the Korean conflict. Since joining the Army, I have found that that "Airborne" female Lieutenant is as likely to be a Reserve S-1 as an MP in the 82nd. That BDU blouse with jump wings could belong to an overweight cook.
Now that I have doubtlessly pissed off some of you, I will make my point. I greatly respect those that choose to jump out of planes as a means of delivery. At the same time, I respect all my fellow Infantrymen as well as any person who wears a uniform in their nation's military. I just find the false pride some FNG's get from attending an Airborne School class to be humorous. Hey, they've done it and I haven't. Cool. Still, learn something and do more than a school before you mouth off. After all, there are more than a few out there who have been-there, done-that more than I could even imagine and don't feel a need to wear badges. I know I keep my mouth shut around others unless asked or aroused. Except for the occasional "Ai-ee-yah!" that is.
Ne Desit Virtus
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Stare Master
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Last Login: Today @ 5:22 PM
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| Not offended but I do need to educate you. I hate to open the same old air assault v. airborne argument we've had here before, but if you haven't been to jump school you are leg. I am not saying to be derogatory or start a fight, it's just a fact of life. Air assualt is not airborne. Glider troops are an entirely different animal. Talk to WWII paratroopers or immediate post-war paratroopers who trained in gliders and you will find they would take parachuting over gliders any day. who were recognized as part of the I was in the 24th ID(pre-mech days) before PCS'ing to the 509th in Vicenza. We did several air assaults(this was while Jimmy Carter was President so it's amazing we were able to do any) although we didn't get the badge. That didn't make us Airborne. The 25th ID has an Air Assault School and, consequently, a lot of Air Assault qualified soldiers but they are not Airborne(except for the new 4th Brigade in Alaska). The 101st is Airborne in name only. Again, not trying to start a fight but just stating facts. The infantry regiments in the 101st are not designated Airborne infantry by the Army. Neither are the artillery, engineers or other support units(although the Pathfinders are Airborne and designated as such). There are many of us that would like to see one at least one brigade of the 101st on jump status which would give the Division a legitimate claim to being an Airborne Division, replicating the orignal WWII TO&E of an Airborne Division. I can understand you not liking the term being applied to you, particularly when you have been to combat and most of those giving you a hard time haven't. I and the other members here respect your service and your commitment to our Country. We also recognize your service in a unit with a distinguished Airborne history, but you are a leg to us. Put in your paperwork and get to jump school and we will welcome you fully to the brotherhood. You will even find that we will give tips and help with your preparation where we can. I don't notice too many Vietnam-era Soldiers in leg units wearing wings nor have I seen many non-Rakkasans wearing wings in-country during the Korean conflict. Spend some time around veterans of both conflicts and you will find that there were quite a lot of jump qualified(and in Vietnam Ranger qualified) soldiers and officers that served with leg units. For an example I refer you to the book and movie We Were Soldiers. If you are interested in reading the history of the Airborne, either generally or specific units, you are in the right place.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS
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Green GI
Group: Registered User
Last Login: 1/23/2008 6:33 PM
Posts: 38,
Visits: 68
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No offense taken. I realize I am a leg and they are not, still, when a FNG that will make five jumps over the course of his career is calling an experienced Soldier a leg, something is wrong. One with six jumps, however... Besides, I take pride in calling myself a dirty leg. Just as I take pride in pointing out that most of the people in my unit are Cherries.
As for the Vietnam Paratrooper comparison, I willing to bet that most of those enlisted Soldiers with wings in leg units during that era had served in a jump unit at one time or another. Of course, officers are a different breed.
Also, I was whining in jest. If I ever feel I am being given a hard time by a private, there is the power of the push-up to reckon with. I have been in long enough to know better than to take anything seriously.
I never said Air Assault is Airborne. I recognize that the two are completely different. Still, according to doctrine, any aerial means of delivery is considered an Airborne Operation. I'm not calling myself Airborne or especially a Parachutist.
I hate to come back after a long hiatus with my low post count and seem like I am trying to start a fight. Believe me, I am not. I just thought I'd share my personal opinion with some actual Airborne personnel.
When I go to jump school, if I ever get off my ass and put in a packet (easier said than done here), I plan to further piss off the Airborne flotilla of Ceremonial Soldiers. With the imminent change to DCU's I don't foresee wearing badges most of the time anyway. It's the right shoulder that counts now.
I apologize for the generally moodiness. I guess it's my time of the month. I have to go now as I have a 12 miler in morning. I got my EIB and Air Assault thinking I would never have to do another of these bastards. Guess I was wrong. Have a good night.
William
EDIT: Make that ACU's, I have the desert on my brain.
Ne Desit Virtus
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Hard Charger
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Ei Temporis Vita Semper Resumo Sese
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Thankfully, the 101st also has a couple other regiments of hooahs that can spell and aren't prone to making strange noises in public...   (Sorry Rakk, couldn't pass up the opportunity to razz you...)
"The degenerative and loony should never be denigrated but, rather, thanked. In their absence, the rest of you would be obliged to fill congressional seats... positions naturally unsavory to the sane and honorable." Thorax
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Keep the Peace and Be of Good Behavior
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 9/8/2008 3:06 PM
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| I gather that you're problem isn't with being called a "leg" but rather how it is said and the context in which it is said. Sounds like the "cherries" in your unit are not giving the due respect that should be regarded a 101st combat infantryman. Whether they intend to or not, they are acting like completing a three week school trumps air assault, an EIB, and a CIB. In that regard, I believe they are mistaken. Being a paratrooper, even a five jump chump, is a mark of distinction worthy of pride, but it is not the be all and end all of HOOAH. The school does not make the man, and neither does the badge...not even jump wings. I know plenty of scrot-bags who wear wings. The proof is in the pudding. It's in what you know, what you do, and how you comport yourself. Jump school does not make you a better soldier. Rather, better soldiers are by and large paratroopers. It's just the type of troop that is drawn to the airborne. A jump unit however...the indoctrination into the 1000 mph pace of the 82nd, or for that matter the 101st, CAN make you a better soldier. Sounds like this is a problem you will have to deal with on your own terms, or live with it. I had a similar problem when I first arrived at Bragg. I had already done a Korea tour with 1-506 where just about all the NCO's were from the 82nd, 101st, and 75th. I had been indoctrinated into the mentality, pushed to learn my job, and I was a better soldier for it. However, when I arrived at Ft. Bragg I had cherries with 3 mos. in the army calling me a cherry. I wouldn't stand for it, as I knew more and did more than any of them. I made it clear on no uncertain terms that though I was a new jumper, I was not a cherry. I almost got into a couple fights over it. However, I stood my ground, proved my skills, and the bs stopped. Sounds like you need to sound off like you got a pair.
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Strac Trooper
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Last Login: Today @ 10:51 AM
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| "I'm not calling myself Airborne or especially a Parachutist. " A Parachutist! A Parachutist! WTF Over! Parachutist does not equate with Paratrooper BIG difference! So the next time those cherries give you shit about being the leg that you are, after they recover from the leaning rest remind them of this fact! Graduating from BAC does not make one a Paratrooper never has never will!
HHC 3/325, 4/325 83 - 89
LETS GO!!!USPMA #11, CVMA #1271 NH 5-1
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