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Hard Charger
 
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 9/13/2007 8:52 PM
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First off I want to say that I did not post this to humiliate or shastize anyone. I feel this should be debated in a resonably good manner. My personal goal for this is to let Evil_Lightfighter know that we as soldiers shouldnt be the type of infantry he thinks we need. I have pulled several paragrahs from the room so each is open for debate. My comments are included. For anyone that was there and you recall other comments that werent relivant yes I did not put them in here.
[10:42] <Evil_LightFighter> People on death row should be used as targets for advanced BRM
[10:43] <Evil_LightFighter> We can use them as training aids
[10:43] <SgtV> lol
[10:43] <Evil_LightFighter> I'm not joking
[10:43] <SgtV> use them as the targets in the hostage take downs?
[10:43] <Evil_LightFighter> No
[10:43] <Evil_LightFighter> On the rifle ranges
[10:43] <Evil_LightFighter> On the bayonet assault course
[10:43] <SgtV> moving targets?
[10:43] <Evil_LightFighter> On the pistol ranges
[10:43] <SgtV> that would consider that druel an unsual
[10:44] <SgtV> so the death morning after is easyer to pass off on socity
[10:44] <Evil_LightFighter> "F" no, I'd consider that getting recruits in basic a taste for killing
[10:44] <kdog> Is that Cruel and Unusual,V??? lol
[10:44] <Evil_LightFighter> And if they are unwilling to kill then they are kicked out and shipped home
[10:45] <SgtV> christ almighty
[10:45] <Evil_LightFighter> and they can continue living in their hippie fag commune
[10:45] <kdog> druel an unsual=cruel and unusual in V speak lol
[10:46] * SgtV smacks keith
[10:46] <SgtV> shush
[10:46] <SgtV> you speak V so you know whut i meant
[10:46] <kdog> Yeah,Italy's goin to town
[10:46] <kdog> lmao,Ed!!
[10:46] <SgtV> read what i mean not what i type
[10:46] <Evil_LightFighter> Or they can join the Navy or Marine Corps which wouldn't be too different than their hippe fag commune
[10:47] <kdog> Man,some Jarheads smoke you for that comment,evil...lol
[10:47] <Evil_LightFighter> They can try
[10:47] <Evil_LightFighter> 8^)
[10:47] <kdog> lol
[10:48] <Evil_LightFighter> Some might, many won't
[10:48] <kdog> cool
[10:48] <kdog> We have some good ones on P net
[10:49] <kdog> Although i don't know where Tom went
[10:49] <Evil_LightFighter> Yeah Rickdog seems fairly cool (for a Marine), he's on the Lightfighter.com forums too
[10:51] <Evil_LightFighter> Okay back to my master plan to improve infantry training ......... The convicts can take the role of both moving and static targets on all live fire ranges
[10:52] <Evil_LightFighter> What range they'll be used on and if they shall be static or moving depends on what they did to land themselves in this position
[10:53] <Evil_LightFighter> All ranges will have fence lines to keep the targets from wandering off the field of fire
[10:56] <Evil_LightFighter> For the less crimes committed the convicts will be placed as targets for the bayonet assault course, they will ge giving a K-pot and a rubber ducky (plastic m16) for which to defend themselves
[10:56] <Evil_LightFighter> This way the convicts will be able attack and defend but will not have the advantage of the bayonet like the IET soldiers will have
[10:59] <Evil_LightFighter> This will ensure highly realistic training for the recruits where they will be to engage in bayonet and buttstoke attacking with the enemy (target) force, The killing of people up close and the danger of being buttstroked by the convict targets is what will make this training good
[11:01] <Evil_LightFighter> A simular approch would be taken on the rifle,pistol,machinegun ranges as well ..... however the convict targets will not have any means to defend themselves or counterattack
[11:02] <Evil_LightFighter> You just keep rotating suriviors around from training role to training role until they die
[11:03] <Evil_LightFighter> If any IET soldiers die then their next of kin will get their life insurance, any IET soldier injuried will be re-cycled, any IET soldier who refuses to kill will get a dishonorable discharge
[11:04] <Evil_LightFighter> That is in a nut shell my plan for making U.S Army infantrymen more effective killers
[11:08] <Evil_LightFighter> Oh one other thing I forgot to mention, each soldier could be assigned a young dog to accompany them through training and for them to take care of, before a soldier is allowed to leave for FTX (week 12/13) he must use a bayonet to kill his dog. If he refuses to kill the dog due to his emotional attachment to the dog then he shall be giving a dishonorable discharge, all soldiers must kill their dog to graduate (I got this idea fr
[11:10] <Evil_LightFighter> This is to ensure that cowardice will not be an issue for this soldier
[11:12] <Evil_LightFighter> Like I said this is just my plan in a nutshell, my ideas go into much greater detail ........ so tell me what do you guys think ?
[11:12] <SgtV> wellll
[11:12] <SgtV> while you have a good idea
[11:13] <SgtV> today socitity wont go for it
[11:13] <SgtV> and as far as killing a dog to get outta basic?
[11:13] <SgtV> "F" THAT
[11:13] <Evil_LightFighter> It worked for the SS, I thought it might be worth a try
[11:14] <Evil_LightFighter> Of course their training was much longer and they had to spend close to a yr with the dog which made it much harder
[11:14] <Evil_LightFighter> I'm not sure how attached one can get with a dog in 13wks
[11:15] <Evil_LightFighter> Perhaps due to lack of time with the dog it would be a bad idea
[11:15] <kdog> Damn-we aint the SS
[11:15] <SgtV> no man, you gonna take a dog like that train it, let it be the best buddy, it dies, think or the agreesion you have
[11:16] <SgtV> sides im a dog lover, had to give up my rottie, damn nead killed me
[11:16] <Evil_LightFighter> I know that, but that doesn't mean that we couldn't adopt some of their training methods to produce more efficent trigger pullers
[11:16] <kdog> I think our system is fine
[11:17] <SgtV> LF, we dotn want machines, we want soldiers, not murders, you would have the same type of people fighting for you that you just shot on the damn range
[11:17] <Evil_LightFighter> That and to produce more mentally tough soldiers
[11:17] <SgtV> that kind of **** would dement the mind
[11:17] <SgtV> soldier first human next
[11:17] <Evil_LightFighter> Ones that are less likely to return with PTSD or other mentally problems
[11:17] <SgtV> how long you been in?
[11:17] <Evil_LightFighter> Almost 3yrs
[11:18] <SgtV> yes im goin somewhere with this
[11:18] <SgtV> you been across a sea yet ?
[11:18] <SgtV> had to look down the barrel at a tango?
[11:18] <Evil_LightFighter> No
[11:19] <SgtV> i used to think like you
[11:19] <SgtV> till i had to look down that barrel, .... it "F"IN SUCKS
[11:20] <Evil_LightFighter> I just think we need more sociopathic type infantrymen, much less likely to care about taking another humans life
[11:20] <SgtV> no you dont
[11:20] <Evil_LightFighter> Less likely to ever give it a second thought
[11:20] <SgtV> you think that, yes, but that is what makes a good soldier
[11:20] <kdog> no "F"ing way
[11:21] <SgtV> one that thinks for himself, there is no greater emotion then survival
[11:21] <Evil_LightFighter> ww2 sorta messed up my Grandfather a little
[11:21] <kdog> we'd be training an army of sociopaths
[11:21] <SgtV> exactly keith
[11:22] <kdog> messed up a lot of folks,I guess
[11:22] <Evil_LightFighter> Were my uncle told me that killing people in vietnam was no different for him than killing a deer or rabbit when hunting
[11:22] <Evil_LightFighter> told me he that he sorta enjoyed it
[11:23] <kdog> Different for some people
[11:23] <Evil_LightFighter> I'd come back home like my uncle than come back home to nightmares and stuff
[11:24] <Evil_LightFighter> I'd rather**
[11:25] <Evil_LightFighter> I don't think that it would cause me any mental stress as I seem to be a fairly emotionally detached person, but I don't know .... I haven't been there or done that
[11:26] <SgtV> YOU DONT KNOW THAT FOR SURE MAN sorry the caps, work thing
[11:26] <kdog> Then it would be hard to say
[11:26] <SgtV> i dont have them as much, but i have them
[11:27] <Evil_LightFighter> I don't like uncertainty, and thats why I'd like to see training mentally prepare you so that you know for a fact that you won't have any issues later in life with your actions in war
[11:27] <Evil_LightFighter> I can see and understand your side of it though
[11:27] <Evil_LightFighter> I get what your saying
[11:29] <kdog> But you can't go around shooting Prisoners and dogs
[11:30] <SgtV> i hated the world, i wantd to kill for the sake of killing, not to fight for my country, i was in the army to kill because i was an angry soul, i wanted to fight likethe for YEARS, till they gave me live ammo
[11:30] <SgtV> pointed athe bird said go get them, an good luck
[11:30] <Evil_LightFighter> I'll be back as soon as I fix my PC
There is much more going on as we speak an I will update later.
"Greater love than this hath no man, but that he should lay down his life for his friends."
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Hard Charger
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 9/13/2007 8:52 PM
Posts: 2,456,
Visits: 267
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[13:54] <offspr> are you "F"ing serious???
[13:55] <kdog> tears in my eyes
[13:55] <Evil_LightFighter> I'm quite serious
[13:55] <kdog> Yes,he is,Jen
[13:55] <offspr> do you realize how many 11b's and 11c's there are a year??
[13:55] <Evil_LightFighter> Not enough
[13:56] <offspr> honestly, I wouldn't want you protecting me and my freedom
[13:56] <Evil_LightFighter> Which in why if not regulated closely we would run out of death row convicts
[13:57] <offspr> nor would I want you under my boyfriend because it's obvious to me that you lack the mentality to be an effective infantryman
[13:57] <Evil_LightFighter> However dogs wouldn't be in short supply
[13:57] <offspr> that's not the point
[13:57] <offspr> you're looking at it in streile terms, soldiers don't operate that way
[13:57] <offspr> sterile
[13:58] <Evil_LightFighter> The point is that too many soldier are effected with mental and emotional problem during and uppon returning from war
[13:58] <offspr> and that's bc they can't kill their brothers?
[13:58] <Evil_LightFighter> They wouldn't be killing their brothers
[13:58] <offspr> yes, they would
[13:59] <offspr> and the fact that you say that reaffirms my belief
[13:59] <Evil_LightFighter> They would be killing murders, child rapers, theifs, and animals that for 13wks are raised as their pet
[13:59] <offspr> you don't train with someone- even a dog- just to turn on it bc you're ordered to
[13:59] <offspr> you are "F"ing sick
[13:59] <Evil_LightFighter> Its a "F"ing worthless animal not a fellow soldier
[13:59] <Evil_LightFighter> Not a commrade
[14:00] <Evil_LightFighter> Its a pet
[14:00] <Evil_LightFighter> Nothing more
[14:00] <offspr> no, you'd make a worthless soldier bc you think that way
[14:00] <offspr> life isn't disposable
[14:01] <kdog> S what would my cats be
[14:01] <kdog> Mine-finders?
[14:01] <Evil_LightFighter> They are pets
[14:01] <kdog> Well,so are most dogs
[14:01] <offspr> well, my pets lives mean something to me
[14:01] <Evil_LightFighter> I know
[14:01] <Evil_LightFighter> I'm not talking about taking your dog away from you and killing it
[14:02] <offspr> yes, you are
[14:02] <kdog> Someone were to hurt my cats,they'd be dead,frankly
[14:02] <offspr> you're talking about 3 months with an animal to kill it
[14:02] <Evil_LightFighter> I'm talking about having dogs raised to be used in the manner I explained
[14:02] <offspr> and you want to go AD?
[14:02] <kdog> But thats just morally WRONG
[14:03] <Evil_LightFighter> I never said anything about going to peoples houses and taking their animals away from them
[14:03] <offspr> I pray to god you end up in 1/187
[14:03] <Evil_LightFighter> Is is wrong to kill a deer or anyother animal ?
[14:03] <Evil_LightFighter> Your arguement about killing animals being wrong holds little weight
[14:03] <offspr> do yo eat dog?
[14:03] <kdog> And I'm not including that;just raising dogs for that in and of itself is morally wrong
[14:04] <offspr> I'm not korean, personally
[14:04] <Evil_LightFighter> Have I eating dog meat, yes
[14:04] <Evil_LightFighter> didn't know it at the time though, but yes
[14:04] <kdog> You hunt deer to eat
[14:04] <offspr> then your argument against deer holds little weight
[14:04] <kdog> moose to eat
[14:05] <Evil_LightFighter> I don't hunt deer to eat
[14:05] <kdog> duck-to eat
[14:05] <kdog> goose-to eat
[14:05] <offspr> elk, cows, chickens, pigs
[14:05] <Evil_LightFighter> I hunt deer because I enjoying killing them
[14:05] <Evil_LightFighter> I don't eat deer meat
[14:05] <Evil_LightFighter> I give it to my buddy randy
[14:05] <offspr> deer aren't domestic animals either
[14:05] <kdog> SO WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE THING???
[14:05] <offspr> you have a lot of growing up to do
[14:06] <kdog> Thats just plain wrong
[14:06] <Evil_LightFighter> So I guess in those places in the world where they raise dogs food, they are doing something morally wrong ?
[14:06] <offspr> to me it is bc I don't eat dog
[14:06] <SgtV> in our socitity yes
[14:06] <SgtV> thiers no
[14:06] <Evil_LightFighter> Everything you guys are saying is all subjective opinion based arguements
[14:06] <offspr> however, they don't have the livestock production that we have so that's their sustenance
[14:07] <offspr> no, it isn't
[14:07] <offspr> it's a morality issue
[14:07] <Evil_LightFighter> Socitity is always right too isn't it *rolls eyes*
[14:08] <offspr> I find it incredulous that you would take soldiering and turn it into a machine
[14:08] <offspr> it isn't
[14:08] <kdog> Are you on drugs??
[14:08] <Evil_LightFighter> No
[14:08] <kdog> No way in hell I'd ever have you in my unit.Sorry
[14:08] <offspr> soldiering may not be what you want to do with your life
[14:09] <kdog> And thats not a personal attack
[14:09] <Evil_LightFighter> lol, thats fine Kdog .... if thats the way you feel
[14:09] <kdog> Just my judgement
[14:09] <offspr> it was from me
[14:10] <offspr> in my 27 yrs the only thing remotely as ridiculous I've heard was the beret issuance
[14:10] <SgtV> ok gnag
[14:10] <SgtV> er gang, lets move this to the big kids play room
[14:10] <SgtV> http://www.paratrooper.net/aotw/commo/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13975
[14:10] <kdog> LF:Try posting this topic on P net;see where it gets you.
[14:11] <SgtV> he dont hvae to
[14:11] <SgtV> i did it for him
[14:11] <Evil_LightFighter> I had got into this discussion with some guys in my unit before
[14:11] * SG-83 is reading the Lethal Soldier thread
[14:11] <SG-83> gah
[14:12] <Evil_LightFighter> funny thing is .......... the moral issue was never raised about killing dogs, the moral issue was raised about using convicts as human targets
[14:12] <offspr> that's a whole other issue
[14:12] <SgtV> exactly
[14:13] <Evil_LightFighter> Like I had said earlier to V and K
[14:14] <offspr> ?
[14:14] <Evil_LightFighter> I understand your point of view, however I still see my ideas as being Potentially valid training method
[14:15] <offspr> and that is why you aren't an NCO
[14:16] <kdog> So did Himmler and the SS
"Greater love than this hath no man, but that he should lay down his life for his friends."
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Regular Joe
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 7/8/2008 9:18 AM
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Breaks the basic principles we as Americans live by. AS to the constitution, yes cruel and unusual punishment would be the 8th Amendment.
This idea of human targets is... well...at least silly.
An opinion can be argued with; a conviction is best shot. T.E Lawrence
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Regular Joe
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 6/20/2008 4:43 PM
Posts: 248,
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Immature young man with the demeanor of a child and needs to be command referred to Mental Hygeine. Did he get his ass beat by a marine or a sailor one time?
Guys like that have $300 dollar survival knives attached upside down on their LCE, think Nazi's were 'cool', and watch too many movies like 'Predator' and 'Soldier'. I think Timothy McVeigh had a lot in common with 'Evil'...
whacko.
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Jumpmaster
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 8/23/2008 3:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dirty503
Immature young man with the demeanor of a child and needs to be command referred to Mental Hygeine. Did he get his ass beat by a marine or a sailor one time?
Guys like that have $300 dollar survival knives attached upside down on their LCE, think Nazi's were 'cool', and watch too many movies like 'Predator' and 'Soldier'. I think Timothy McVeigh had a lot in common with 'Evil'...
whacko.
[LOL][LOL] every unit has a guy who collects tons of huge knives, subscribes to SOF, plays every role playing game, plays magic cards, is a barracks rat, and the only women he says hello to are the cashiers in the px when he buys his new issue of PS2 monthly.........
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Seasoned Vet
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 8/17/2008 12:01 PM
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E.l.f. definetly has some...issues. Even in SF we were proud of our humanity. When some jerk would comment about killing kids and old men if our team were compromised we say "We're the SF NOT the SS". If there is no honor or morality then we'd be no better than the murderous scum he would have us murdering. I think that trying to take an all-American kid and teach him to kill a dog that he has raised for 13 weeks to make him mentally stronger would only produce psycopaths who would later have to be re-absorbed back into society. How about having a butt load of Ted Bundy type sociopathic mass murderers roaming around the country...Durrrrrr.
Anyone with any common sense knows that this "training" method would produce "UNSTABLE" soldiers who might be cold blooded killers but not suitasble for anything else. Do we then dispose of these unstable soldiers on island or just put them to sleep with a lethal injection when their term of service is up?
E.L.F. needs to stop reading/watching Sci-Fi and take some Psych courses at the local college, also take some leadership subcourses to learn the effective traits of a leader. This notion of his is "disturbing" to say the least.
[82nd][E7][E6][uswingm]
Stand in the door!
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