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Regular Joe
 
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Last Login: 2/12/2008 10:25 AM
Posts: 271,
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That's a big Ranger That
RLTW
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BS6's Dude
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Last Login: 11/16/2008 1:14 PM
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Bottom Line - The commo guys in LRS should be ALLOWED to go to Ranger school as DESIRED training, but not REQUIRED training.
So - No Victor coded commo positions on the unit maning document, but recognition that the training would be exceptionally useful for the commo men.
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Seasoned Vet
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 10/25/2008 8:48 PM
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Don't even get me started on the LRS Commo guys training! I hope that they have better freaking radios than the HF trash they were issuing my guys when I was in LRS. No way is a PFC gonna be proficient on a PRC-70 or 74 without lots of training and experience.
Ranger training is a good thing for all LRS team members...but as I and several others have pointed out, SF Recondo type training is as important for actual LRS team training and cnduct of mission. Hidesites and Ranger are two words that just do not belong together!
Assualt, seizures, airfield takedowns, those are all Ranger missions but LRS teams need to be taught doctrine that contact/compromise is contrary to a successful mission. Again I will say that all team members should be allowed to go to Ranger school for the small unit leadership training it provides but then they should go learn how to sit on a target without any expectation of engaging it!
Again I personnaly had experiences with former Ranger Regt. and RTB Ranger types coming into the LRS unit and trying to make it into a Ranger unit. Many times I was chastized by my peers and an officer or two for being "too" laid back, mission planning oriented and not aggressive enough in the field. They were wanting to do Platoon movements and training and I would call BS on it.
Eventually I ended up as Operations NCO and with a few other like minded souls convince the Commander that CSAR and patrolling while sexy were not the types of training that was gonna pay dividends come deployment time.
The bottom line is, if it is full of Rangers, led by all Rangers, and trained by Rangers...you have a Ranger company, not a LRS company. If you have a good mix of soldiers from regular Airborne units, SF, Regt., and even Marine Recon types you will have a unit with a mindset that is more open to the performing the doctrinal LRS missions. This I think is easier for the Guard LRS units because of the diversity they enjoy with prior service, different service, and non-prior service soldiers.
Just my .02 worth.
[82nd][E7][E6][uswingm]
Stand in the door!
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Regular Joe
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Last Login: 2/12/2008 10:25 AM
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Great post Jmpmaster. That should be the end of this thread since everything was said with a nice final touch.
RLTW
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BS6's Dude
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Last Login: 11/16/2008 1:14 PM
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Jmpmastr -
FANTASTIC post, Brother... I've worked with a BUNCH of LRS units, and I TOTALLY agree!
Eyes -
It's SF Phase 2 that is the MOS specific portion. Phase 3 is the team training/Robin Sage portion. Phase 2 is where they'll get the most Commo training, and it's REAL good... I learned a LOT about the PRC-70 there, and really liked it.
I definitely agree LRS commo guys should go, but they would also have to go to the Advanced International Morse Code (AIMC - pronounced "aim-ick") course as well. There were SEALs in my 18E course when I went through.
Bottom line on all this - LRS should transition to USASOC for training and command, then be farmed out as OPCON to the conventional units they support.
Right now, many LRS units tend to focus on Ranger stuff, because Rangers have a great deal of credibility. LRS needs a pipeline of training that has credibility all it's own.
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Green GI
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Last Login: 8/3/2008 5:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JR
Jmpmastr -
FANTASTIC post, Brother... I've worked with a BUNCH of LRS units, and I TOTALLY agree!
Eyes -
It's SF Phase 2 that is the MOS specific portion. Phase 3 is the team training/Robin Sage portion. Phase 2 is where they'll get the most Commo training, and it's REAL good... I learned a LOT about the PRC-70 there, and really liked it.
I definitely agree LRS commo guys should go, but they would also have to go to the Advanced International Morse Code (AIMC - pronounced "aim-ick") course as well. There were SEALs in my 18E course when I went through.
Bottom line on all this - LRS should transition to USASOC for training and command, then be farmed out as OPCON to the conventional units they support.
Right now, many LRS units tend to focus on Ranger stuff, because Rangers have a great deal of credibility. LRS needs a pipeline of training that has credibility all it's own.
Not a flame but a on the spot correction.
Phase 1 is SFAS
Phase 2 is SUT
Phase 3 is Mos portion
Phase 4 is Robin Sage
Phase 5 is Language
Phase 6 is SERE
Morse code is no longer taught in the 18E course.
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BS6's Dude
Group: Community Supporter
Last Login: 11/16/2008 1:14 PM
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BLAST my dated information!!!!
Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the update!
For HISTORICAL purposes (!), back in 1992 when I went, the SF pipeline for 18E was:
SFAS
AIMC
Phase 2 (MOS Portion)
Phase 1/3
Language School
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Green GI
Group: Registered User
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