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Stare Master
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Last Login: Today @ 8:07 PM
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Rey, agreed. From my perspective here what they are doing are performing as soldiers. It is called Basic Combat Training for a reason. When it came time for traditional infantry assault in Fallujah it was trained USMC and Army infantrymen supported by armor that were called upon to do the job.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS
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OIF Veteran
 
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 11/16/2008 11:01 AM
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Barry, what is happening is that a lot of CSS folks who never expected to see combat or be in harms way this long think they are performing as infantrymen simply because they've had to return fire or have had a WIA/KIA here and there. Not trying to diminish their service at all, but as you stated they are performing as the soldiers they are expected to be. Ninety % of the cordon and searches/raids, ambushes, counter mortar/IED missions, combat and recon patrols, deliberate assaults, and movements to contact are being conducted by the INFANTRY. Some of that is also being conducted by other combat arms branches but CSS is definitely not involved in any of it. Recent claims on the Stars & Stripes (Mideast Edition) are simply false.
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Cherry
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 10/31/2008 7:07 AM
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My example of Infantry as the Do All MOS.
As a Spec4 found myself humping a radio for the BN S3. Then Ops Sgt found out I could type and whee ha I was typing OPORDs on the brand new state of the art "Computer thingy". Basically I learned DOS and Wordperfect by selftraining (without even pitching the thing through the window) before anyone had heard of a 286.
Long story short: Working with Asst S3 one saturday and he couldn't find BDE OPORD to work from. I said no problem sir I jump across the street and see if it was on their computer. Told BDE SDO what was up and he let me in S3. While I'm swearing to myself looking for this (gotta love max of 8 character filenames and poor subdirectories) the BDE CSM comes in. CSM McFowler (sidenote - this guy NEEDS to be in the great NCO's who influenced me)
He hears me swearing at the computer and says, "What's the problem paratrooper?"
I say, "Sergeant Major I can't figure out the directory scheme used here."
He says, "Trooper, the Army spent alot of money training you to do that, didn't you pay attention?"
At my look of wat da fuk (don't remember saying anything maybe I did) he goes on about 71L and how I should know this stuff.
I reply, "Sergeant Major I'm not a 71L I'm just doing this job while assigned to Battalion." He says they should send somebody trained for this.
I'm very proud of this now but I didn't even think about it then, I say, "Sergeant Major I'm 11B I can do anything."
He grined and gave me a "Hooah Trooper Drive On".
I can't remember all that was said exactly but for years after that (even when he went to Top of the Hill) if I saw him he'd remeber me and say something about my "being able to do anything" comment.
But that's how I felt and apparently he did too. Us grunts take alot of abuse about "touch break" and being dumb but for the most part the men I worked with were very intelligent.
Roman soldiers believed you came back with your shield or on it. This belief declined, so did the Roman Empire.
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Strac Trooper
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March or Die Good to see you back on the boards
 Drive On
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JR's Chick
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Well, hell, I didn't know I was deterring so damn much from cohesion, morale, and teamwork. I like soldiers feeling good and being dedicated their branch and their profession, but if one truly believes that one branch of the Army is more critical than another, then that is a horrendous attitude of shortsightedness. I'm actually offended by some of the comments in this thread, that's never happened before.
Blacksmith Six
"I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman!" -Homer Simpson
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Ei Temporis Vita Semper Resumo Sese
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Ma'am, This is not just arrogance and pride. The infantry attitude is hammered into every man wearing a blue cord from day-1 of basic training. Self reliance and self-sufficiency are requirements because nine times out of ten, we have to make do and improvise on our own. An infantry outfit can continue on mission and be successfull in combat despite being cut off from all outside help... good example of this is operations conducted in Burma by Merril's marauders. No other branch of the Army can make that claim. I am truly sorry if you have been offended by some of the statements made here in this thread but I can garauntee that each of us who served with a line infantry organization has had experiences in training and combat where we were left in a lurch by support units and had to make do. Does this attitude reduce our effectiveness? Of course it does... I've witnessed plenty of situations where commanders have not used available assetts such as armor or transportation to aid in mission accomplishment because they either were so used to relying on their own organizations or had bad experiences in the past that made them feel these units were unreliable. The infantry attitude is an albatross on the necks of our personnel that unfortunately, get's reinforced far too often... okay... I'll take my whipping now.
"The degenerative and loony should never be denigrated but, rather, thanked. In their absence, the rest of you would be obliged to fill congressional seats... positions naturally unsavory to the sane and honorable." Thorax
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OIF Veteran
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Last Login: 11/16/2008 11:01 AM
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Hell, I've been offended many times on this site by statements from non-infantry types. Goes with the territory I guess.
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BS6's Dude
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In MY unsolicited opinion - The comments get offensive when they refer to things that can't be changed. I.E.: If you're a male support troop, you can be an infantry troop - Just cross-train. If you're a female support troop, you can't be an infantry troop - Congress won't allow it. If they would implement gender-neutralized PT requirements for entry, then open all career fields to both genders: 1. Squared-away women wouldn't have to take any more crap for being female and having lower requirements. 2. Ignorant misogynistic knuckleheads would have their prime argument against females in the military removed.
If the support troops who've let you down in the past only did so because they were female, then I'd say you've may have a legitimate bitch - although it would be purely situational. But making disparaging comments about females in the military simply because of their gender is totally ignorant - or perhaps worse.
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