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Trooper
 
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Last Login: 2/1/2008 9:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 509Trooper
Ranger School is supposed to be a leadership course for officers and NCOs. It also has the mission of accepting and training qualified enlisted soldiers from the Ranger Regiment. But it seems to me that sending a SF NCO who has completed the Q Course is waste of the RTB's time and the unit's money. Now if that SF NCO wants to serve in the Ranger Regiment he should have the opportunity to attend Ranger School like any other NCO in the Army.
Not to start another arguement but when I went to Ranger school we had a E-7 commo qualified SF soldier in my platoon. I was greatly disappointed by the lack of basic field skills and basic infantry skills this guy had. In fact he was basically just a in private in infantry skills. So while it may seem that Ranger school would be beyond SF qualified soldiers don't forget that some of the SF soldiers weren't infantry before and could very well have very little field time. So Ranger school may do them good.
I couldn't believe that the guy was SF and I asked him a number of times if he was just assigned or qualified just because of the lack of skills. He was qualified though. He ended up recycling and I don't know if he ever graduated.
Ranger2
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Stare Master
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Ranger2, my only thought is if a soldier of any rank doesn't learn those skills in the Q Course how likely is it they will learn them in Ranger School? It's sad to hear that a soldier can actually complete the SFQC and not be able to handle basic infantry skills, regardless of MOS.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS
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Trooper
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Last Login: 2/1/2008 9:39 AM
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509,
I know exactly what you were trying to say and I would guess that 90% of the time you would be right. But someone can always fall through the cracks and I saw it in the 75th too when a ragbag would slip through Ranger school and then be a dirtbag and quit when he got back.
This guy was probably the exception but additional training can always help.
Ranger2
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Trooper
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Last Login: 2/1/2008 9:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sh0t
Well I meant as far as the service is concerned. Ie, you are a Marine first, no matter what your job is.
They discourage the thinking of "You are a Recon Marine" or whatever. So that way it's all about the Corps, not the 75th or whatever unit you belong to.
Most people who serve any amount of time in the Army switch units many times so their usually isn't any problem. It is usually us one enlistment guys who are stuck on one unit. I only saw two units that you could really stay at for long and that was SF and the 75th. We had a squad leader who was in the same platoon for 8 years. Any other unit you would get orders at some point. Us airborne paratroopers are just stubborn proud guys and we like to argue.
Remember that this whole topic was brought up as a joke too. [ ][][]
Ranger2
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Trooper
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Last Login: 2/1/2008 9:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sh0t
Why aren't all of the Infantry Divisions trained as Rangers, airborne status or not?
As far as the ground portions etc.
Good question. Ask one of the O's, I was just a dumb enlisted Ranger.
Probably time and money. If they did then the Army would probably be a lot smaller like the Marines but probably a hell of a lot better too.
Ranger2
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Stare Master
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Sh0t, first you have to remember that Ranger School is primarily a leadership course. That is why incoming combat arms 2LTs get a slot pretty much automatically. And once a soldier becomes Spc or Corporal promotable he can get a slot if his unit approves it and is willing to pay for it.
But to even send every NCO to Ranger School would be cost prohibitive and probably require at least one more Ranger Training Brigade. Plus, in order to insure the Army has enough NCOs for the slots in the service would, IMO, require the standards to be lowered. Otherwise the attrition rate is far too high and a lot of soldiers who might otherwise be good NCOs would essentially have their careers ended.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS
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OIF Veteran
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Last Login: 11/16/2008 11:01 AM
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Men, lets not forget that whether you are a leg or airborne qualed you still have to VOLUNTEER for Ranger training. Whether it be RIP, ROP or Ranger school itself. It takes a certain type of trooper to not only want it, but to successfully complete Ranger training or serve for two or more years in a Ranger unit. If not everyone would wear black and gold tabs in the Army. There is no way the Army could force feed Ranger training to all leg or airborne infantrymen. For example, every "AD" infantry 2LT gets a shot at the school, but do all want to go or make it?
While at IOBC you should have heard all the stories from mainly 'branch detail' 2LTs that did not want to go or intentionally failed something in the first few days at RAP week. Pretty weak if you ask me.[thdown] Wish those slots could go to squared away enlisted men who WANT to go.
That is basically the BS massage Shinseki sent to the entire Army in October of 2000, "everyone is elite/special or a hardcore light fighter by just wearing former elite headgear." An empty and sorry fashion statement.[bs][thdown]
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Seasoned Vet
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Barry good posts, I think you are on the mark with your thoughts. I know that their are some guys Ranger and SF who just are too full of themselves and believe the sterotypes that are out there.
I vividly remember in the mid 80s the push to get us (SF)to stop tooting our own horn and begin to act like the true "Quiet Professionals" that they are today. I remember bar fights with civis, talking down to regular and leg soldiers, and some pretty big egos. I am glad that those attitudes went by the wayside and that SF today has | | | |