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Stare Master
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I think part of the problem is that the military in general has become too enamored with camoflage for uniforms. In Vietnam, both as head of White Star and SOG, Bull Simmons would not let his SF troopes wear camo uniforms. He pointed out that the VC wore black pajamas.
Camo uniforms have a limited purpose for troops. If you're moving it doesn't matter whether you wear camoflage or a one color neutral uniform. The movement itself will most likely get you spotted. Camo works well when stationary in heavy brush. True snipers, as opposed to a unit marksman, need camoflage uniforms the most. However, through the use of ghillie suits even that is not required.
Much more important than the camoflage is the actual pattern the uniform is cut in. Are the pockets functional and accessible when in the individuals gear is what is important.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS
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Strac Trooper
 
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Sh0t,
you wrote :
If the Air Force needs a better bdu for utility purposes, by all means they should get whatever the best is for their needs. But to do it for the main reason of being uniquely air force is detrimental to everybody. That's a few million blown on uniforms which could have bought a few cargo planes to get eyebehindthelines behind the lines. So in effect, it does hurt us all, if that's the purpose.
I think somewhere in the jokes/pics/messages that this point was lost. All the services are looking into their "work" uniforms. The Marines Chose MARPAT...kudos for them. I'm sure that whatever the AF chooses will have am improved utility. to what is worn. Anyhthing new should have better durability.
My reaction to the MARPAT is that it is a defacto everyday uniform. The Marines here on Eglin at the EOD school wear them every day. Also, every Marine I've seen stationed at PNAS who was not a pilot was in MARPAT.
And though looking pretty in Class A or B is an option, one has to look at the public perception. In prior (before my time) years, BDU's and fatigues were for all services to be worn on base, not off. Nowadays, you see cammies everywhere...the shopping mall, Wal-Mart...They have become a universal uniform. And since there is a chance that one could be out in public, I'd want that trooper/Marine/Airman to look their best...creases high-n-tight and spit shined boots. Not that I've had much effect on the AF yet, but all a butterbar can do is lead by example. MAybe one day I can preach down AFI's and Regulations from up high.
Since Johnny Public doesn't know squat about the Military, they see cammies, they think Army, even though they may be AF, Army, Marine, or Navy. If every service had some type of utility pattern that is suited to the needs of that service (Like MARPAT) then maybe Johnny public would see MARPAT as Marine, AFPAT (whatever it is) as Air Force and ARMPAT as Army.
 
Fighters are our salvation, But BOMBERS alone provide us with the means of VICTORY! - Winston Churchill
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Stare Master
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Pusher, I have problem with the entire concept that a uniform should be chosen in total or even in part based on the perception of the public when they see a service member in it. Of course the MARPAT is an everyday uniform, just like the BDU is/was. The fact is MARPAT and BDU are working uniforms, and the pattern and the design should reflect that.
As an AF officer you should set the example. If you are not going to be in the field your uniform whatever it is should reflect that. That has nothing to do with the style or camo pattern(or lack thereof) that should be adopted by the service.
I still believe what I originally posted, that if the AF is going to adopt their own duty uniform they should forget about camoflage. If they want to develop a camo pattern to use for pilots, aircrew and special ops, fine. But there is no reason the ground crew or the SP at the front gate needs to be wearing camos.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS
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Stare Master
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Shot, I'm not saying that the military should do away with camo uniforms. I am just trying to point out that I think that too much attention given to them, what pattern or the fact that the 3rd ID had desert BDUs but woodland body armor and chem suits. I just believe that far too much emphasis is put on the camo pattern given its relatively small effect for the vast majority of service members, regardless of the service.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
"History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over." COLONEL BULL SIMONS
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Strac Trooper
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Dunno Sh0t...Down here in NWFL you see MARPAT at many more places than getting kids and gas...things may be different over there at SD.
Fighters are our salvation, But BOMBERS alone provide us with the means of VICTORY! - Winston Churchill
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Seasoned Vet
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Marines are not supposed to do that stuff. I have seen guys get reamed in public for wearing cammies to the tailor's or auto shop.
There is another point too. Up until WWII, Marines HAD a separate uniform. Due to the rapid growth, we had to use Army uniforms sometimes. After that, we kept the leggings in Korea. In Vietnam, the DOD made us all wear the same uniforms, but we used a different helmet cover. This is just going back to that.
Go with God, but make Him walk the point.
If you load a mudfoot down with a lot of gadgets he has to watch somebody a lot more simply equipped - say with a stone axe - will sneak up and bash his head in while he is trying to read a Vernier. - Robert Heinlein
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Seasoned Vet
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quote:
If every service had some type of utility pattern that is suited to the needs of that service (Like MARPAT) then maybe Johnny public would see MARPAT as Marine, AFPAT (whatever it is) as Air Force and ARMPAT as Army.
Who gives a "F"?? I don't.
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Seasoned Vet
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