Bear with me here. I'm not sure I can put exactly into words the question that is on my mind, but I'll do the best I can.

As someone who once belived that no god exists, or has ever existed. I always looked at certain issues from the standpoint of moral relativity. IE: As long as they are not hurting me or another, or forcing their beliefs onto me, or others, I don't care. It's their life, and allow them to live it as they see fit.

However, many times, I encountered those who belive in a higher power, saying; The Bible says that it is wrong, or the Qur'An says that it is wrong.

To this, I would always respond,

((ok, let's say for the sake of argument, that God does exist, what is the greatest gift besides the gift of life that god bestowed upon us? More often then not, I'd get no answer, so I'd reply, the gift of free will, and the ability to choose our own path in life. To do as we please. Are there consequences to our decisions, and actions, yes, there is, consequences that God will judge us on, and then punish us, or reward us as God see's fit. Does God, the creator of all life need your help in passing judgment on others? Or punishing those who don't follow  God's laws? No, God does not. Who are you to take God's place in judgeing your fellow man for his/her decisions and inadequacies? Are you not the hypocrite? Judge not, lest, ye be judged yourself.)))

I'd usually get the silent treatment after this.

Yesterday, I heard that the state of Pennsylvania, is getting ready to bann Gay Marriages. Now, I find myself conflicted, as to whether agree to this, or allow them to do as they please, and marry eachother.

It's not just being conflicted on homesxuality, hearing about the possible bann on homo marriages is what brought this up, but also on  things, like Abortion, divorce, Porn, sex outside of Marriage etc. I find myself thinking, ok, the Bible says things like this are wrong, that these things are against God's laws and will. However, I still feel, as before. Allow them to do as they please, and God will judge them on the day of reckoning. It is not my place to judge another, for I am not without sin.

You may say, ok but we cannot allow these types of things to go on in our society. It is decadent, and leads us into temptation. The corruption of our morals, and our children. We must  cast these things from our sight, and not allow them to progress. And part of me feels that way. But at the same time, I feel as though, we are trying to take away the free will of other's. Free will, one of God's gifts.

Is that a sin itself?

Now here's the really tricky question for me, the one I really have trouble putting into words. Hope you can understand what I'm asking here.

If we lived in a world complete decadence, and yet avoided the temptation of many things, fought it, and stayed true to God's law's, even though under man's law, we are allowed to whatever we please, does'nt that make us stronger, and have more charector, then someone, who, let's say, follow's god's law, only because it's man's law's as well, or hides from all things decadent?

I've heard many say, that this life is a test, that to go to heaven and have your name in the book of life, you must resist temptation, follow God's laws with your heart, and you will be judged accordingly.

But if we cast temptation from our sight, and make God's laws, man's laws, punishable by an earthly sentance of some sort. Then how can we say we are resisting true temptation? If it's not there to tempt us, in our faces, everyday, everywhere we go, how is the the purity of our souls judged? How are we judged for a life lived, protected from those temptations? Temptations, that otherwise, might lead us astray, if we were to encounter them?

Is it wrong to feel this way as well....IE: Allow them to do as they please, and God will judge them for it.

Any oppinions would be appreciated, whether here, via pm or e-mail. Or a friendly point to the section of the Bible that discusses these things.

Thank you.

Evil Unchecked Grows, and Evil Tolerated Poisens The Entire System. Jahwal Nehru

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In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
Mark Twain.

Evil Unchecked Grows, and Evil Tolerated Poisens The Entire System. Jahwal Nehru

-------------------------------------------------------------

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
Mark Twain.

Allow them to do whatever they want to do with consenting adults as long as they are in their private bedrooms.

But I have problems with marriage since it is not a privacy issue, but it specifically is saying society accepts this.

Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

I have nothing against mankind, its people I can't stand.

"If it's not there to tempt us, in our faces, everyday, everywhere we go, how is the the purity of our souls judged? How are we judged for a life lived, protected from those temptations? "

Let me offer that we are not judged based on how we live our lives or how many times we resisted temptation, but by how we have responded to the message of ghe Gospel - whether we have believed in the One sent by God pay the penalty for the sin of all men for all time.

John 3:16, Eph 2:8,9

We are called to live a life of service to God and have a God given desire to walk in obedience which results in resisting temptation (Phil 2:13).

And what about all the sin left in the world? Read Eph 5:8-13 for some awesome counsel.

"ok, let's say for the sake of argument, that God does exist, what is the greatest gift besides the gift of life that god bestowed upon us? More often then not, I'd get no answer, so I'd reply, the gift of free will, and the ability to choose our own path in life. To do as we please. Are there consequences to our decisions, and actions, yes, there is, consequences that God will judge us on, and then punish us, or reward us as God see's fit. Does God, the creator of all life need your help in passing judgment on others? Or punishing those who don't follow  God's laws? No, God does not. Who are you to take God's place in judgeing your fellow man for his/her decisions and inadequacies? Are you not the hypocrite? Judge not, lest, ye be judged yourself.)))"

Yeah, thats true, God doesn't NEED our help, but it doesn't limit him to the tools he uses to carry out his plan. He has used ordinary people all through time to carry out his will... look at moses, king david, daniel, Gideon, Joshua etc etc etc...  YOu really see the power of God work, when he uses his faithful followers as tools for his greater plan.

"It's not just being conflicted on homesxuality, hearing about the possible bann on homo marriages is what brought this up, but also on  things, like Abortion, divorce, Porn, sex outside of Marriage etc. I find myself thinking, ok, the Bible says things like this are wrong, that these things are against God's laws and will. However, I still feel, as before. Allow them to do as they please, and God will judge them on the day of reckoning. It is not my place to judge another, for I am not without sin."

Agreed, they will always be around, they have been around for the past 6000 years. Remember soddom and gamorrah? The men in the city tried to gang rape the angel of the lord that was the guest of Lott's house.

God was sick of it and turned the city into a pillar of salt. now that being said, Lott tried to convince God NOT to destroy the city because he was certain he could find some good citizens in it. when he could not, God Leveled the city.

God wants us to share his message with everyone. He tells us to love the sinner, but hate the sin, that meaning its your responsability to tell that person that hey, your actions are not pleasing to God, but God still loves you, and that you still love them, but they need to take a look at where their life is headed, and their eternal status.

You cannot get to heaven by just being a good person, or being religious.  Religion is not what saves, belief that Christ was the Son of God, who paid the ultimate price, laid down his life for the ultimate sacrifice, that allowed you forgiveness in Gods Eyes. If you believe that, not just know it with your head, but believe it in your heart... That is what gets you to heaven.  

"You may say, ok but we cannot allow these types of things to go on in our society. It is decadent, and leads us into temptation. The corruption of our morals, and our children. We must  cast these things from our sight, and not allow them to progress. And part of me feels that way. But at the same time, I feel as though, we are trying to take away the free will of other's. Free will, one of God's gifts."

This is kind of an interesting arguement. Where do you draw the line of others free will endangering the basic human rights, or the free will of others?

If you allow the age old tradition of marriage, to be corrupt into same sex marriage, if you teach society that bisexuality is ok, or that Porn is fine, hookers are fine, drugs are fine, then you are tearing down the moral fabric of not just family values of the past, but are making it so that, if i want to raise my kids to have good moral values, they cant enjoy anything, cant enjoy music, tv, movies etc etc etc. because its so heavily laiden with things that society deems ok.

Look, Homos are gonna be homos, people are gonna get high, people are gonna pay for hookers, and sin will always be around. no matter how underground it gets, but when we start allowing it out in the main stream and letting people say oh..  whats it going to hurt to see a boob on tv?  well.... it starts there... then you wind up with people like the gay german canibal who likes to slaughter his victims and store the meat on a totinos frozen pizza box, but before killing them to butcher, he cuts off their wang dangs and eats it. Thats the kind of people you produce when you let the rampant ideals of society influence your kids. Albeit an extreme result, but thats what happens.

The verses that B4B has set out for you are excelent verses.

Psalm 144:1Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight