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Hard Charger
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 12/30/2008 9:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 509Trooper
Those are WWI era patches. I don't think anybody here is going to seriously try and argue the 82nd wore tabs in WWI.
Hey I saw Billy Mitchell's notebook on-line somewhere and he had a prototype airborne tab sketched in it, blah, blah, balh [ ]
"EBO isn't a strategy. It's a sales pitch." - Ralph Peters
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Trooper
 
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I'm not going to belabor the points already made but I want to pass on some info. During WWII the 187 and 188 were the 11th Abn Div glider Regts and MG Joe Swing got as many of them through jump school as he could. They were known as para/glider regts. It could be he did it for the pay as it wasn't until late in the war that glider troops got extra pay.
The Airborne has never been popular as senior commanders felt that we got the youngest and best conditioned troops and the best NCO's. They felt this lowered the caliber of the leg units. They never figured out that the Airborne made the NCO's and troops what they were.
2 Cols who went to bat for the Airborne after WWII were Rubin Tucker who commanded the 504 for most of WWII and Ed Lathi who commanded the 511th during the same time frame. Col Tucker finally made BG in 1956 and retired shortly thereafter after making O-6 in 1943. Col Lahti was a 1936 Hudson Hi grad who made O-6 in 1944 or 45 and retired as an O-6 in 1962. As you can see Airborne was never popular and it hurt their promotions.
A note here prior to RVN 2 fields that were considered dead end were Special Forces and Army Aviation. I had a CO in the 229th AHBin 1964 that stated the only branch of officers that rated worse than Aviation were the WAC's.
When I was with 11th Abn we had tank companies in each regt. We also had a tank bn (76 Tank) in the division. Most of the tankers were legs. When the division got to Germany we had the 370 AIB assigned to the division and they wore the patch. We also had a scout dog plt assigned I think they also wore the Flying Red A$$hole patch. One note was at Ft Campbell in 1955 the Army garrison troops wore the 3rd Army patch. We used to call them Gene Autry and his Circle "A" boys.
In 1959 I was with 1ABG 505 which was part of the 8th Inf Div Abn Bde. We had a leg Div CG who made us take off our cap patches and we were not allowed to wear bloused jump boots off post. If we went off post in class "A"s we had to wear low quarters. When we got a new CG we got our boots and cap patch back.
My personal opinion is that the "Airborne Spirit' would survive without the boots,beret or tab. While my time jumping was before the beret I think it and "Hoohah" are great. I will confess I never heard "Hoohah" during 1955-75, but if it works use it.
When I was with the Cav in 1964-6 MG Kinnard was an old WWII jumper from the 101st. He required all ground Bn Cos be Abn Qual. We had an Abn Bde (1/8,2/8 and 1/12 cav) at that time. However The 1/7 Cav during Ia Drang did a great job and I think most of that was due to many of the NCO's were old jumpers and of course LTC Moore and SGM Plumlee were the leaders. For a draftee bn the Airborne Spirit of the leaders helped them through a time when they could have been wiped out. By the way after the Ia Drang the intel folks said they were finding mass graves in Cambodia that they estimated contained 10,000
bodies. Of course no one figured how they got that number as the U.S. troops weren't in Cambodia. We all know SF never crossed a border in SE Asia.
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Seasoned Vet
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quote:
Of course no one figured how they got that number as the U.S. troops weren't in Cambodia. We all know SF never crossed a border in SE Asia.
They used the Corona Spy Satellite and the SR-71 Dutch.[ ][ ]
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Seasoned Vet
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I guess what galls me after reading this thread is that technically speaking,a leg--assigned to the 82nd Airborne during his/her career,when asked which unit he served in,could truthfully answer "the 82nd Airborne Division",thus implying he was on jump status.Now I know,us vets and informed civilians might ask what unit and such,thus(if he's no longer wearing a uniform) deciding if he was a jumper on-status or not..Why is it impossible to make an exception to the unit designation,ie;if you're a leg assigned to the 82nd,just wear the 82nd patch,WITHOUT the tab.Man,I know this is a pointless,and probably child-like argument.You want the SILVER WINGS,and thus the AIRBORNE tab,go to Jump School...(smilies aren't working tonight)
"Stand....in the door"
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Trooper
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D6
I should say that was the rumor in the division about the 10,000 dead NVA. But no one ever said that's just a rumor. By the way the folks the 1/7 fought in the Ia Drang were not the VC but regular PAVN(Peoples Army North Viet Nam)as a matter of fact those units were elite. While 1/7 got shot up pretty badly, no one knows how many NVA died there not even the NVA. They had everything coming on Chu Pong Mtn. If I'm not mistaken they put an arclight(B-52 strike) on that mountain.
My guess they probably had SF folks go up to the Cambodian border and slip a long tube with a mirrow into those graves to verify the SR71 count. Of course this was all done without crossing the border.
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