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Harmony Church Survivor
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RD, I don't doubt that he had a genuine affection for Soldiers. However, that doesn't mean he was lax on the rank structure. I didn't try to imply he did. I tried to imply that an AMERICAN who dies on the field of battle deserves to be treated with a hell of a lot more respect, as far as honors at his funeral, then and AMERICAN who dies stateside, regardless of rank. That is my point...
......."If you dream about shooting me, you better wake up and apologize" Reservoir Dog
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Hard Charger
      
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Rojo Diablo (4/1/2008) And wasn't he awarded the MOH in WWI?No, he was nominated for the MoH but was awarded the DSC. Mac went to WW1 as a Major and came out as a BG, not bad considering that we were only in WWI for about a 18 months! Mac was awarded 6 (yes, SIX) Silver Stars for valor in WW1, was wounded twice (once by shrapnel and once by gas), and exposed himself to enemy fire so many times that it was considered a near miracle that he was not killed. He also refused to wear a helmet, even while his subordinates strictly enforced the helmet requirement on other soldiers. The first time he went into battle in WW1, he was accompanying a French infantry unit and the only "weapon" he carried was a riding crop. As Barry pointed out, he was awarded the MoH in WWII for his actions in defending the Philippines. There was a lot of grumbling about this (it seemed a very "political" award, particularly since Mac and Roosevelt had some bad blood between them) but the record of history clearly shows that Mac was a true soldier, as well as a brave and brilliant commander. Incidentally, there's apparently no truth to the rumor that Truman had it in for Mac because of some run-in during WW1 (when Truman was an artillery officer very junior to Mac.) They served in the same division, I believe, but there's no evidence that they ever clashed during the war. OTOH, Mac and Pershing hated each other. Basically, Mac considered Pershing and his staff to be a bunch of REMFs who stayed in the rear while the real fighting was up on the front.
Martin "When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission" - Zapp Branigan, Futurama
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Ei Temporis Vita Semper Resumo Sese
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Uh... I'm not as much of a fanboy of Mac as some... he showed a rather odd proclivity to get himself into trouble in a big way. "I understand the Asian mind" he was proud to spout off... yet he managed to lose the Phillipines against a smaller force in what should have been ideal conditions for a defensive engagement... yet he managed to discount the Chinese warning not to cross the 38th parallel. I have to wonder how many of his successes were the product of his staff rather than his own planning. He was charismatic though... definately able to inspire.
"The degenerative and loony should never be denigrated but, rather, thanked. In their absence, the rest of you would be obliged to fill congressional seats... positions naturally unsavory to the sane and honorable." Thorax
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Hard Charger
      
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khyros (4/2/2008) Uh... I'm not as much of a fanboy of Mac as some... he showed a rather odd proclivity to get himself into trouble in a big way. "I understand the Asian mind" he was proud to spout off... yet he managed to lose the Phillipines against a smaller force in what should have been ideal conditions for a defensive engagement... yet he managed to discount the Chinese warning not to cross the 38th parallel. I have to wonder how many of his successes were the product of his staff rather than his own planning. He was charismatic though... definately able to inspire.Manchester's book is anything but a hagiography. He points out Mac's mistakes in the Philippines and elsewhere (ignoring the initial plan to defend Bataan, for instance.) He also points out Mac's vanity, his insufferable arrogance and his political ambitions that ultimately got him cashiered. But when you consider that he was able to take all of New Guinea and the Phillipines while suffering fewer casualties than the allies suffered in one European campaign alone (the Battle of the Bulge) it's hard to deny his brilliance.
Martin "When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission" - Zapp Branigan, Futurama
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FNG
      
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| Hey, sorry I don't have an updated profile, I can't figure out how to add the cool guy stuff on here. However, I'm a Infantry SFC in Taji right now, I'm the one mentioned in the article that started this thread. I'm headed on mid tour next month, and I'm going to spend 2 days in DC addressing this with some folks that can directly effect this issue, or atleast I hope....... I encourage all in here that support this change, to do 2 things, sign this petition, http://www.gopetition.com/online/19121.html And write your Congressman, it is the only way this will change, trust me! Don't talk about, do something please!
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Regular Joe
      
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khyros (4/1/2008)
You are mixing apples and oranges. A private or lieutenant who wraps himself around a telephone pole on leave is not getting buried at Arlington period. A general officer or sergeant major who passes quietly in his sleep after twenty plus years of service certainly will... along with the appropriate regalia. That is how it works in non combat related deaths. Every soldier who falls in combat has a plot, rifle squad, bugler, and flag detail waiting for him at Arlington. High honors... with the assorted accruments and funeral procession are reserved for senior officers, heads of state, and those who displayed such heroism in the line of duty that Congress approved the awarding of our nation's highest award. What should anger you more is crap like when the Kennedy brat was provided a burial at sea ahead of numerous Navy veterans... he was neither a veteran nor a public servent when he decided to fly unqualified at night under the influence and turn his aircraft into a submarine. He didn't rate being pissed on yet was given a high profile military funeral simply because of his circumstances of birth. That happened at about the same time a C-46 full of Marines crashed in the ocean resulting in many deaths. I was angered at the time that a Kennedy who never served got more honors than those Marines did.
De Oppresso Liber
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Regular Joe
      
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martinjmpr (4/1/2008)
Rojo Diablo (4/1/2008) And wasn't he awarded the MOH in WWI?
OTOH, Mac and Pershing hated each other. Basically, Mac considered Pershing and his staff to be a bunch of REMFs who stayed in the rear while the real fighting was up on the front.
I remember a story that Gregory Peck told after he filmed "McArthur". Patton and Mac also did not get along. It seems that in WWI in one of their first times under fire a shell came screaming in, everyone ducked except Mac...........and Patton. Mac never forgave Patton for showing him up.
________________________________________________________________________ "Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there. Eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one. One is a warrior, and he will bring the others back."
Heraclitus circa 500B.C.
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FNG
      
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