U.S. pilots were given chance to practice dogfighting against Soviet jets

The Associated Press

Updated: 6:43 a.m. ET Nov 17, 2006

DAYTON, Ohio - A once-secret program that enabled thousands of U.S. military pilots to practice dogfighting against Soviet-designed MiG fighter jets was detailed Thursday by the Air Force as part of the first public acknowledgment of the program's existence.

The classified air combat training program ran from 1977 to 1988 at the Tonopah Test Range in remote desert scrubland near Las Vegas and Nellis Air Force Base.

"I guess the mouse is out of the pocket," said Gail Peck, who helped start the program and was its first commander. "After 20-some odd years, you have a little bit of a tingling feeling talking about things that were so closely held for so long."

Officials decided to declassify the program after determining that releasing the information would not harm anyone, and the Air Force announced the move Monday. A news conference was held Thursday at the National Museum of the United States Air Force, which has a MiG fighter on display.

MiGs are among the Soviet Union's most famous high-speed jet fighters, known for their speed and agility. Several other countries have produced their own versions.

John Manclark, the Air Force's director of test and evaluation, said as many as 25 MiGs were used in the U.S. training program — MiG-17s, MiG-21s and MiG-23s. The MiGs were flown by Air Force, Navy and Marine pilots.

Manclark would not say where or how the military obtained the MiGs. However, he did say accidents involving the MiGs claimed the lives of two pilots. He said there were about 100 accidents for every 100,000 flight hours, far higher than the average of four accidents per 100,000 hours for Air Force fighter jets.

Trainees would first observe the MiGs in operation and then practice dogfighting with them to hone their skills against MiGs they might encounter in combat situations.

Peck said young pilots were especially impressed when they went up against MiGs for the first time.

"They would pull up beside you in formation, and you could almost see their eyeballs popping out of their heads," he said. "It was that exciting for them."

About 6,800 pilots went through the program, which was code-named Constant Peg after a general's call sign and a commander's wife.

"If you talk to any general officer in the Air Force that is still on active duty and he flew fighters, he flew against the MiGs," Manclark said. "It was that big of a program."

The scale of the program created challenges in keeping it secret.

The MiGs were kept in their hangars or put in the air to avoid detection when Soviet satellites were overhead. When U.S. military pilots in other operations made emergency landings at the airfield, they would have to sign secrecy oaths about what they had seen. And the crews that maintained the MiGs dressed in civilian clothing to avoid drawing attention.

An end to the Cold War, coupled with the expense of the program, contributed to its end in 1988, Manclark said.

"Hundreds of thousands of American servicemen and women are deployed across the world in the war on terror. By bringing hope to the oppressed, and delivering justice to the violent, they are making America more secure. "
George W. Bush

"...my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me." He added, after a pause, looking me full in the face: "That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave"

General "Stonewall" Jackson

All the way, sir!!!

Since 1989, Soviet Mig Vets have acknowledged their participation in their role during the war.

Soviet press releases and publications have made it clear that their participation in the war was far more extensive than first thought. It was assumed that individual Soviet "volunteer" pilots flew against us. New information came out that Soviet pilots were involved in a large fraction of all MiG-15 battles against US fighters during that time.

And like China, the USSR used the conflict as a training ground for their airmen, rotating no fewer than twelve divisions through Korea during the war. A Polish MiG-15 pilot who defected in 1953 said that many of his Russian instructors had served in Korea.

Until 1950, no MiG-15 interceptor regiments were stationed in the Far East. They were concentrated in the Moscow Air Defense District to protect the capital against US bomber attack. As a result, the squadrons earmarked for Korea were drawn from elite units. The first large Soviet aviation unit sent to Korea was an air defense interceptor division commanded by Col. Ivan Kozhedub, who, with sixty-two victories, was the top Soviet ace of World War II. Due to the pilot's celebrity status, Stalin personally ordered Colonel Kozhedub not to fly combat missions. The division's lead elements left Moscow in mid-November. At that time, a MiG-15 interceptor regiment numbered thirty-five to forty aircraft, and a division usually included three regiments.

The dogfights that occurred in the fall of 1951 highlighted the disparity of skills between the Chinese and Soviet pilots. In one year, China's Air Force had expanded from virtually nothing to one of the world's largest air arms, with more than 1,000 combat planes. The Chinese candidly admit that their pilots in Korea were poorly prepared but felt that the operations were a necessary learning experience. Soviet pilots were, on average, more experienced than their Chinese counterparts but not as well trained as their US foes. Many were veterans of World War II, but it appears that only a handful of wartime aces went to Korea.

Feb 1991 - By Steven J. Zaloga for The Air Force Association

****************************************************
During the war over 45,000 Air Guardsmen, in 22 wings and other units, were called into active Federal service. The 136th Fighter-Bomber Wings, Texas ANG, was among the first Air National Guard units to be called. Flying the F-84E Thunderjet, the Texas Guardsmen moved to Japan in May 1951 and, shortly thereafter, became the first Air Guardsmen to enter combat in the Korean War. During the winter and spring of 1951, the Chinese Communist Air Force mounted a major air offensive against the United Nations air forces. The major contested area were the skies over northwestern Korea known as "MIG Alley." The U.S. Air Force retaliated by mounting a counteroffensive aimed at destroying the enemy's aircraft and bases. In June 1951 the 136th's 182d Fighter-Bomber Squadron was given the mission of protecting B-29 flights on bombing missions over North Korea. On June 26, 1951, the pilots of the 182d were escorting four B-29s to an enemy airfield near Yongyu when five MIG-15s attacked the American bombers. Although relatively new to combat, the pilots of the 182d turned back the veteran MIG pilots. During the ensuing dogfight, 1st Lt. Arthur E. Oligher assisted by Capt. Harry Underwood, shot down a MIG-15--the first Air Guard jet "kill." The Air National Guard went on to make an impressive combat flying record. Today's 182d Tactical Fighter Squadron, Texas Air National Guard continues to add to its impressive flying record.

Mig Alley, North Korea -- June 26, 1951

"Let's Go Downtown" - Flight of the Intruder
 

http://www.327infantry.org/second/c_co 

Same Mud Same Blood - NBC documentary filmed 1967 RVN, chronicle Frank McGee

LOAD CLEAR! LOAD CLEAR!

To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.

Elbert Hubbard

Mortarman11c (11/17/2006)

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OH we have a squadron of Mig 29s but that's all I can say about that........

Does your job ever take you to Wright Patt AFB or to the Springfield Air National Guard Base?  If so, pm me.  I owe you a beer!

"Hundreds of thousands of American servicemen and women are deployed across the world in the war on terror. By bringing hope to the oppressed, and delivering justice to the violent, they are making America more secure. "
George W. Bush

"The degenerative and loony should never be denigrated but, rather, thanked. In their absence, the rest of you would be obliged to fill congressional seats... positions naturally unsavory to the sane and honorable."

Thorax

"Hundreds of thousands of American servicemen and women are deployed across the world in the war on terror. By bringing hope to the oppressed, and delivering justice to the violent, they are making America more secure. "
George W. Bush