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Hard Charger
Group: Registered User
Last Login: 11/14/2008 11:15 AM
Posts: 2,248,
Visits: 3,070
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| I've not yet weighed in here and I think I need to. I truely believe that the Purpose of the Christian is first and foremost to Glorify God. We do that in many ways if we are living in a right standing with Him. We do that by being good husbands/wives fathers/mothers, we do that by engaging in service to our fellow man, we do that by being the best at whatever it is that we do in order to glorify God. (Clearly what it is that we do needs to glorify God, if we're the best drug dealer in the world, we are still not glorifying God) If we strive to do all of those good things for ourselve we are not glorifying God and therefore are not living out our purpose. If we do all those things so that maybe God will like us we have fallen into a horrible trap. God already loved us enough that he sent his Son to die for us, he can't love us any more. If we do those things out of gratitude for the gift of His Son and a desire to please Him because He loved us enough to send Jesus to die in our place, then we Glorify God. Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father If we read that in context we realize that everything that Jesus did was to glorify God and if that was Jesus' purpose statement then I WANT IT TO BE MINE TOO!!!!!
"...my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me." He added, after a pause, looking me full in the face: "That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave" General "Stonewall" Jackson
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Regular Joe
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Last Login: 6/5/2008 10:23 AM
Posts: 367,
Visits: 479
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All I can say is Amen to Skypilot's comments. I've also been unsuccessful in finding anything in Scripture that speaks to being 'purpose driven'. I find a great deal that speaks to being 'Spirit Led'.
In His Toolbox,
B4B
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/dcartwright/CMF_FortCarson/
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Beekeeper
Group: Community Supporter
Last Login: 11/11/2008 9:01 AM
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Visits: 13,895
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Born4Battle (8/16/2006)
He does have some good counsel in his book, but it was difficult to find a clear salvation message that discussed the 'hard' topics that 'user/seeker' friendly churches like to avoid to bump the numbers. In the NT, people were getting saved then added to the church. Not to say that unbelievers should not be welcome in our churches, but when that becomes too big a focus, it CAN end up 'Christianity' lite coming from the pulpit. Feel good 'sermonettes' result in 'Christianettes' Book stores are full of Christian self-help books that focus on getting the best/most from God and a bit light on the sort of material that Jesus taught his disciples following Him would cost. Is that not the purpose of the church- to spread the Gospel so that more may find Christ? In your line of thought, it seems that those who are already saved are the only ones who truly BELONG to the church and the rest are just excess. The focus SHOULD be on garnering attendance so that those who are on the fence will come to know Him.
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- IMO
- SFC Richard J. Lacey
LLDS,RCG 1st Sig Bde.
31JAN1968
104535N 1063940E(XS816898)
"The young dead soldiers do not speak. Nevertheless, the are heard in the still houses...We were young, they say. We have died. Remember us." Archibald MacLeish
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OIF Veteran
 
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 11/16/2008 11:01 AM
Posts: 3,697,
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Is that not the purpose of the church- to spread the Gospel so that more may find Christ? In your line of thought, it seems that those who are already saved are the only ones who truly BELONG to the church and the rest are just excess. The focus SHOULD be on garnering attendance so that those who are on the fence will come to know Him. I agree Bee. I also found B4B's comments a bit disturbing. The Lord himself said that those who arent ill don't need a doctor. Christian churches in the U.S. are full of people beating their chests with their "Christianity" but not reaching out beyond the walls of their congregations as the Lord commanded after his resurrection and before his ascent to be with the Father.
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Regular Joe
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Last Login: 6/5/2008 10:23 AM
Posts: 367,
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| Perhaps I 'miscommunicated myself' (I love that phrase! LOL). All I am saying that the PRIMARY responsibility of might be to nurture and build into disciples of Christ, those that are already believers, not necessarily 'let's get them through the doors any way possible and then they might get saved'. We live in a Christian culture where the principle responsilility for actually telling someone about coming judgment, God's wrath, His provision through Christ and the grace offered by the cross seems to have fallen to everyone but Acts 4:13 types (unschooled ordinary men filled with the Spirit). Over and over and over again I hear believers inviting someone to the church, a Bible study, a 'Christian' concert, or to listen to 'so and so' (who sometimes is a 'snake oil selling televangelist') in order to receive the message. There is nothing wrong with inviting someone to something, but I will go to my grave convinced that it's ordinary believers who are to be, by God's design, the front line of soldiers in the battle for souls. When you visit a local Christian bookstore, attend many of our churches (especially the ones with lots oaf money and programs) most of what you see is about 'self'. Not all, but a very large amount. I see little about becoming a real disciple who is to give up all to follow Christ and carry His message. I see little about what Jesus clearly taught his followers to expect just for being his followers. An 'intel indicator' appeared some years ago when I noticed that in a church hymnal or a new recording of "Amazing Grace" (I forget which), the words 'amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me' became 'someone like me'. Well, there's my heart. I hope I did a better job that time. My challenge to everyone who visits here as a believer is that he or she might also become decisively engaged in this great battle for the souls of men. Gotta get to work, gentlemen. Did I get my head off the chopping block?
In His Toolbox,
B4B
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/dcartwright/CMF_FortCarson/
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Hard Charger
Group: Past PNET Supporter
Last Login: 11/11/2008 3:29 AM
Posts: 1,993,
Visits: 2,054
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| It sounds like you have to suffer to be a christian, I don't see it that way, but hey, I am just an average guy. These super churches may be bringing the message to more than we know, I am sure not everyone in these churches is all about snake oil, sure some are, but what churche doesn't have those to include yours. You can claim whatever you want, but as with all things of this nature, your word means diddly, you are not the judge of these churches, nor of any man or woman alive. I may think they go overboard, but they sure get a message out.
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Regular Joe
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Last Login: 6/5/2008 10:23 AM
Posts: 367,
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| There are things like suffering and persecution that are part and parcel of being a true follower of Christ. Sometimes we bring things on ourselves. Other times it comes to us just because we claim Christ. In America we have no idea what suffering for Christ really means. We don't go looking for it. Many times the greatest witness we have as believers is 'how' we go through the same things everyone goes through in this life. Jesus died in our place that day long ago on Calvary. He didn't die so we could have a comfortable ride through life, to solve all our problems, to make us happy, content and successful. Much of that comes (on His terms, not ours) when we become believers. Jesus died so we could escape the the sure wrath and judgment of sin to come. When church leaders bring people to a decision point based soley on having a better life they are dispensing 'snake oil'. When the main focus is on getting unbelievers through the doors, they are cheating the believers who desire the strong meat of the word because they leave out the hard sayings of Jesus and talk of sin, obedience and judgment of sin. Even many of Jesus' followers left when he spoke of the hard things like dying to self and 'taking up crosses'. New Testament Christianity was not about 'getting from God'. Nor should the modern church be mostly about getting from God. That's what I'm saying. It's also not about marketing the gospel with worldly marketing techniques because having the pews filled is a certain sign that you are successful in ministry. That is what's sad.
In His Toolbox,
B4B
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/dcartwright/CMF_FortCarson/
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Beekeeper
Group: Community Supporter
Last Login: 11/11/2008 9:01 AM
Posts: 3,636,
Visits: 13,895
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Born4Battle (8/21/2006)
There are things like suffering and persecution that are part and parcel of being a true follower of Christ. Sometimes we bring things on ourselves. Other times it comes to us just because we claim Christ. In America we have no idea what suffering for Christ really means. We don't go looking for it. Many times the greatest witness we have as believers is 'how' we go through the same things everyone goes through in this life. Jesus died in our place that day long ago on Calvary. He didn't die so we could have a comfortable ride through life, to solve all our problems, to make us happy, content and successful. Much of that comes (on His terms, not ours) when we become believers. Jesus died so we could escape the the sure wrath and judgment of sin to come. When church leaders bring people to a decision point based soley on having a better life they are dispensing 'snake oil'. When the main focus is on getting unbelievers through the doors, they are cheating the believers who | | | |